HOF -> Bonds & clemens

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why was it ok to use amphetamines?

Who said it was? Without getting into the actual scientific differences between amphetamines and metabolic steroids, I'll just say that Mickey Mantle's head didn't grow 3 cap sizes. The whole amphetamine debate didn't surface in earnest until the PED era, long after those players' careers were over and most were already enshrined. It was an attempt to make steroid use seem ok, by deflection. And yes, there are different levels of cheating and intent goes a long way IMO. I don't think the players in the 60s thought "I'll take these little pills and jack 50 home runs so I'll be ridiculously rich one day." Insane workouts? Those guys' idea of an insane workout was picking up two women at the bar at 2am when they had a noon start the next day. Bonds and company were far more malicious in their cheating and I do think that matters. When you hear stories of A-Rod hiring someone to destroy documents and things like that, it tells you these guys absolutely knew what they were doing was completely wrong. All that aside, even if it was conceded that Mantle, Aaron, or whoever is lumped into the greenie era were cheaters, but got away with it, does that just give us all carte blanche to knowingly and willfully admit all future cheaters? Two wrongs making a right? Is Bonds being a petulant, spoiled brat because Sosa and McGwire were grabbing the headlines the kind of lore the HOF should preserve for future generations? Because if he goes in, that is an important part of his story and should be right there on his plaque. I understand there are two distinct camps when it comes to this matter but regardless of what mistakes were made previously, I feel there should be real consequences to these players' actions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Each generation has done what it can to gain an edge, and used what was then available. If anabolics were readily available to the Mantle and Mays generation, I have little doubt many of that generation would have used. I think it's fantasy to pretend those guys somehow were morally superior.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Each generation has done what it can to gain an edge, and used what was then available. If anabolics were readily available to the Mantle and Mays generation, I have little doubt many of that generation would have used. I think it's fantasy to pretend those guys somehow were morally superior.

Baseball didn't have a drug policy prior to 1971, so those guys weren't breaking the rules. Fay Vincent sent a memo to all clubs in 1991 stating that steroids were illegal. So, anyone using them after that were cheating and should be barred from the hof. Personally, I would hold those from 71-91 to the same standard, but I can see a grey area. As far as guys using supplements like Andro, Baseball didn't suspend those guys, so they were saying they weren't cheating at that time and they should only be punished if they used after those substances were actually banned.

I will also add this. Steroids are known to cause serious health problems. Especially in youngsters. Anphetamin doesn't unless they are abused. Those players who used steroids caused a lot of kids who looked up to them to harm themselves. To me that is far worse than the cheating.