What the hell is the deal with this PWCC auction

[Brent Huigens]

This is an extremely frustrating situation for us. We have been in communication with both bidders who retracted bids on this listing. The original high bidder (the first bidder to retract) clearly retracted in violation of eBay and PWCC policy. Following our communication that bidder cancelled yet another bid and is now permanently blocked from participating in future auctions. The other bidder (the current high bidder) became frustrated by the first retraction and understandably questioned the legitimacy of the auction. He/she then retracted again to change his/her max bid given the fact that it had been revealed by the original retraction. He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card.

We have emphasized this very case with eBay Trust & Safety as a textbook example of the problems that bid retractions cause to the auction environment.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[BeanTown]

Did all their bids get cancelled out when they got banned, including other listings? Just curious if there are any other textbook cases on a PWCC listing that wasn't caught by a Net54 member.

It might be nice to post the banned eBay user IDs along with the date on a new Net54 thread. Then just add to the list every time a user gets banned. It would not only show PWCC making an attempt to prohibit it, but also alert other sellers to keep an eye out on certain eBay names.

[T206Collector]

Um... why do people put max bids on ebay instead of sniping? Ever? This practice continues to amaze me. Bid retractions done to out your high bid = another reason why sniping is the only way to fly.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Um... why do people put max bids on ebay instead of sniping? Ever? This practice continues to amaze me. Bid retractions done to out your high bid = another reason why sniping is the only way to fly.

+1 billion

edited to add: The one thing I miss from hiding the bidder ID's of winners is the expletive laced diatribes people would send you through eBay messages if you sniped them in the early days. Granted sniping was risky business in the dial-up days because of slooooooow connections, but those messages were hilarious.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by JustinD

+1 billion

edited to add: The one thing I miss from hiding the bidder ID's of winners is the expletive laced diatribes people would send you through eBay messages if you sniped them in the early days. Granted sniping was risky business in the dial-up days because of slooooooow connections, but those messages were hilarious.

I had forgotten about stuff like that. I only recall it happening to me once where the underbidder contacted me. They called me a "Cheater."

[tschock]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I had forgotten about stuff like that. I only recall it happening to me once where the underbidder contacted me. They called me a "Cheater."

Sorry, Dan. I mistyped. I meant "Cheetah", you quick little animal you. At least that's how we say it on Long-g Island.

[slidekellyslide]

This is why PWCC made a huge mistake in putting a defined number on bid retractions. They are being pressured here to ban a bidder who has spent thousands of dollars with them so far this year. They do it and they lose out on a lot of money, they don't do it and they look like hypocrites.


PWCC has sway with ebay, they should be lobbying them to allow sellers to automatically block bidders with bid retractions. I guarantee serial rectractors would cease to exist.

[Brent Huigens]

It is true that one of the bidders in this listing exceeds our threshold of bid retractions. We have been in close contact with him/her due to the concerning retractions on this listing. In this case we have a somewhat naïve bidder
using bid retractions inconsiderately but not maliciously. He/she has won and paid for almost $60k in the last three months with PWCC which demonstrates his/her follow through with his/her purchases.

We have explained our policies to this bidder and the inheritant damage that bid retractions cause to the auction environment which has been met with apologies and understanding and agreement to refrain from retracting moving forward. With this in mind we believe the bidder's bid retraction count will improve and we have decided to allow this bidder to continue to bid. If we notice more retractions by this user ID it will be blocked.

Yesterday we held a conference call with the eBay Trust & Safety team to show this as a case study of the fundamental brokenness of the the bid retraction tool and how it can enable otherwise good members of the community to act in a way that is disruptive.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Um... why do people put max bids on ebay instead of sniping? Ever? This practice continues to amaze me. Bid retractions done to out your high bid = another reason why sniping is the only way to fly.

+ I can't understand it either. Shillers and bid sniffers love early bidders that leave their bid on the internet cloud for them to simply feast on. Can you imagine the crap that is going down at the AH's. We're only seeing a small fraction on ebay.

[Republicaninmass]

He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months,

And her/his spouse has consignments of almost $60,000 with PWCC in the last three months.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months,

And her/his spouse has consignments of almost $60,000 with PWCC in the last three months.

Shill death do us part.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

and 11 here on the same card

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

Card bid up to 32K within 12 hours of listing. Uh, ok.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

and 11 here on the same card

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

Card bid up to 32K within 12 hours of listing. Uh, ok.

Gotta love all of those bids in the first hour that a 10-day listing has gone live. Does anybody legitimately think there's a logical reason (that doesn't involve shilling) for doing so??

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Gotta love all of those bids in the first hour that a 10-day listing has gone live. Does anybody legitimately think there's a logical reason (that doesn't involve shilling) for doing so??

LOL......touche...I barely get off the .99 cent opener until the last hour of bids.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Gotta love all of those bids in the first hour that a 10-day listing has gone live. Does anybody legitimately think there's a logical reason (that doesn't involve shilling) for doing so??

Yes these is a reason for it. It is slimy also but not as bad as shilling. The items with more bids/looks get placed higher on the eBay list of items that are shown when you don't do a specific search like ending soonest or most recently listed.

You can see this with most large eBay consigners/sellers and it is always the same IDs doing it. They usually have a high # of bids per month and insanely low feedback for the # of bids placed.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months,

And her/his spouse has consignments of almost $60,000 with PWCC in the last three months.

OK, that's funny....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Did all their bids get cancelled out when they got banned, including other listings? Just curious if there are any other textbook cases on a PWCC listing that wasn't caught by a Net54 member.

It might be nice to post the banned eBay user IDs along with the date on a new Net54 thread. Then just add to the list every time a user gets banned. It would not only show PWCC making an attempt to prohibit it, but also alert other sellers to keep an eye out on certain eBay names.

I believe some auction catalogs have listed the actual names of some people that didnt buy the items they won and they were put on a 'shame list'

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

This is an extremely frustrating situation for us. We have been in communication with both bidders who retracted bids on this listing. The original high bidder (the first bidder to retract) clearly retracted in violation of eBay and PWCC policy. Following our communication that bidder cancelled yet another bid and is now permanently blocked from participating in future auctions. The other bidder (the current high bidder) became frustrated by the first retraction and understandably questioned the legitimacy of the auction. He/she then retracted again to change his/her max bid given the fact that it had been revealed by the original retraction. He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card.

We have emphasized this very case with eBay Trust & Safety as a textbook example of the problems that bid retractions cause to the auction environment.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

The current high bidder has 14 retractions if I am reading it correctly. What happened to the 10 max policy? Or is there an exception for regular bidders who spend a lot of money?

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 87
Items bid on: 40
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 39% Help
Bid retractions: 4
Bid retractions (6 months): 14

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

This is an extremely frustrating situation for us. We have been in communication with both bidders who retracted bids on this listing. The original high bidder (the first bidder to retract) clearly retracted in violation of eBay and PWCC policy. Following our communication that bidder cancelled yet another bid and is now permanently blocked from participating in future auctions. The other bidder (the current high bidder) became frustrated by the first retraction and understandably questioned the legitimacy of the auction. He/she then retracted again to change his/her max bid given the fact that it had been revealed by the original retraction. He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card.

We have emphasized this very case with eBay Trust & Safety as a textbook example of the problems that bid retractions cause to the auction environment.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

All you had to do was block anyone over 5, and this would have never happened. This response is a waste of your breath. Let me guess, that was your last post on the topic, right?

[bigfish]

PWCC continues to justify their stance and then plays the victim. You guys are a hoot.



Toby Peterson

[CrackaJackKid]

They can't block the highest bidder, he's probably the only authentic bidder in the whole auction. 😊 Brent and Betsy need to go find a real job. And yes, I am the type of person that will say this to your face. Can't wait for Nationals

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

They can't block the highest bidder, he's probably the only authentic bidder in the whole auction. �� Brent and Betsy need to go find a real job. And yes, I am the type of person that will say this to your face. Can't wait for Nationals

1 lonely voice.... but if there were a group of people - I bet that would draw some needed attention to those unaware of how shady things are here!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Fraud occurs daily in their auctions and they've been caught in multiple lies on this board -- and have admitted to past fraud in their auctions. I think it's fair to conclude that Brent and Betsy are part of the problem and not part of the solution to eBay fraud.

It is also my opinion they are part of the problem.

Originally Posted by bigfish

PWCC continues to justify their stance and then plays the victim. You guys are a hoot.

The real hoot is reading the responses of the people that support them.

[Exhibitman]

Inspector Renault: I am shocked to find gambling here.
Croupier: Your winnings sir.
Renault: Thank you very much.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Inspector Renault: I am shocked to find gambling here.
Croupier: Your winnings sir.
Renault: Thank you very much.

LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

[Dpeck100]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a clean market place but the constant PWCC bashing doesn't seem to be doing them any harm. They have 6,708 current listings as I type this.

The fact that there is a seller that has been able to bring marque cards on a consistent basis to EBAY buyers is just awesome.

Who else has auctioned off cards that have gone for 500k? No one.

I personally have won some great cards in their auctions and I knew if they were coming to market they were most likely being auctioned off through PWCC.

Their shipping is stellar and while I read comments from many that shipping with nice packaging doesn't matter; I couldn't disagree more. Every package comes extremely well packaged and if you compare it to Probstein's it isn't even close. So much better.

The leader is always going to have haters and there is a plethora of those in their case. With card prices attracting bigger dollars and running $0.99 auctions it obviously invites funny games. There is no chance they can regulate all of their auctions. It is encouraging that a seller who clearly benefits from higher prices is doing anything to regulate the wild west known as the card market.

You may not like their operation but the fact that PWCC exists has done wonders for the card market.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Inspector Renault: I am shocked to find gambling here.
Croupier: Your winnings sir.
Renault: Thank you very much.

bahahahaha

[jfkheat]

.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

This is an extremely frustrating situation for us. We have been in communication with both bidders who retracted bids on this listing. The original high bidder (the first bidder to retract) clearly retracted in violation of eBay and PWCC policy. Following our communication that bidder cancelled yet another bid and is now permanently blocked from participating in future auctions. The other bidder (the current high bidder) became frustrated by the first retraction and understandably questioned the legitimacy of the auction. He/she then retracted again to change his/her max bid given the fact that it had been revealed by the original retraction. He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card.

We have emphasized this very case with eBay Trust & Safety as a textbook example of the problems that bid retractions cause to the auction environment.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

Congratulations! Y'all are almost taking a stand...kind of sort of...

'Drawing a line in the sand doesn't do much good when a lot of hot air is blowing.'