OT: I am Done Doing Business with AH's That Rip Me Off

[KMayUSA6060]

Can someone explain to me why there's a Buyer's Premium? I get that's how the AH gets paid, but why is that "tax/fee" put on the buyer, and not the seller/consignor?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's semantics. The seller pays it no matter what it's called, in that he gets less than what the buyer paid. A rational buyer should not care less what part of the price is called a premium.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's semantics. The seller pays it no matter what it's called, in that he gets less than what the buyer paid. A rational buyer should not care less what part of the price is called a premium.

Yep.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Can someone explain to me why there's a Buyer's Premium? I get that's how the AH gets paid, but why is that "tax/fee" put on the buyer, and not the seller/consignor?

Simply stated, it's greed, but...

I believe BPs started with high end AHs like Christies, etc but it basically works like this in an overly simplified example.

Auctions houses could make their money on commissions from sellers only. For example you sell an item through an auction house for $1000 at 10% commission, you get $900, the auction house gets $100.

When someone had the bright idea to add a premium to the buyer too, then in theory it works like this: Item sells for $1000, seller gets the same $100 but the AH gets $200!

Now at 10% that's probably not too big of a deal but now some high end artsy fartsy AHs charge the buyer as much as 30% and as everyone who bids and is aware of BPs, the tendency is to stop bidding taking the BP into consideration. This in theory hurts the seller as he doesn't get as high of a hammer price for his item and the AH still gets a huge cut of the take.

These days with high BPs, auction houses can now offer sellers deals like low or zero commissions, and still make a profit on the sale. I mean 20% on a $1000 item and the seller gets full hammer price, everyone is happy. On really high end items AHs might even give the seller a piece of the BP.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Simply stated, it's greed, but...

I believe BPs started with high end AHs like Christies, etc but it basically works like this in an overly simplified example.

Auctions houses could make their money on commissions from sellers only. For example you sell an item through an auction house for $1000 at 10% commission, you get $900, the auction house gets $100.

When someone had the bright idea to add a premium to the buyer too, then in theory it works like this: Item sells for $1000, seller gets the same $100 but the AH gets $200!

Now at 10% that's probably not too big of a deal but now some high end artsy fartsy AHs charge the buyer as much as 30% and as everyone who bids and is aware of BPs, the tendency is to stop bidding taking the BP into consideration. This in theory hurts the seller as he doesn't get as high of a hammer price for his item and the AH still gets a huge cut of the take.

These days with high BPs, auction houses can now offer sellers deals like low or zero commissions, and still make a profit on the sale. I mean 20% on a $1000 item and the seller gets full hammer price, everyone is happy. On really high end items AHs might even give the seller a piece of the BP.

This is where I have a problem with it. They offer me (as a buyer) nothing more than eBay does, yet make eBay's fees look minimal. The services they offer strictly benefit the seller in most cases, so why are they benefiting twice off the buyer? At 10% I would have less of an issue. But at these 18%+ rates, it irks me.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

They offer me (as a buyer) nothing more than eBay does, yet make eBay's fees look minimal.

Do you really feel as comfortable paying an eBay seller you do not know four figures or more for a card as you do Heritage or REA? Hats off to you if that's the case.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

Do you really feel as comfortable paying an eBay seller you do not know four figures or more for a card as you do Heritage or REA? Hats off to you if that's the case.

Absolutely cause I'm not buying from Joe Shmo with only 1 feedback rating, Nancy Pantsy with 1675 feedback and an 89.9 rating, or Battlefield. Haha.

I don't feel any safer going with auction companies because as stated above, they are largely greedy. What wouldn't they do for money if they are gonna charge the buyer an outrageous tax/fee just so they can get the consignor to consign more stuff? Haven't there been threads about cards that get doctored or restored by these auction companies (if I'm mistaken I apologize)?

[Peter_Spaeth]

This isn't hard. I don't know why people can't grasp this simple concept. As a buyer you are paying what you pay. Whether the AH calls part of it a premium or not is meaningless. They could charge a 50 percent premium and it comes to the same thing -- just factor it into the bid like (almost) everyone else does. If you win a card and your out of pocket is 100 dollars, what do you care if they called 20 of it or 50 of it a BP?

The one it affects is the consignor, who only gets the hammer price.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This isn't hard. I don't know why people can't grasp this simple concept. As a buyer you are paying what you pay. Whether the AH calls part of it a premium or not is meaningless. They could charge a 50 percent premium and it comes to the same thing -- just factor it into the bid like (almost) everyone else does. If you win a card and your out of pocket is 100 dollars, what do you care if they called 20 of it or 50 of it a BP?

The one it affects is the consignor, who only gets the hammer price.

+1

When I bid in Heritage I also have to pay NY sales tax, so a $1.00 bid ends up costing me around $1.30. So I bid accordingly. If I think a lot is worth $1000, I'll max out my bid around $700-750. No big deal, it's just a calculation. I don't win as many lots as I like but if I keep at it I usually get what I am looking for eventually. I'm disciplined and patient.