Will a Colorado Rockie EVER be Elected to the Hall of Fame?

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am not arguing the merits, I am just saying a .254 hitting outfielder will not get in, in my opinion. He really fell off the table at age 30, I can't remember now was it injury?

he started having knee issues.

HOWEVER, he was in MLB at age 19. If he had come up at 22 and played until 38 would anyone have an issue? Instead it was 19-35ish and people think he crashed.

and batting avg? c'mon man, not even the voters use that any more. (and the few that did were purged)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

he started having knee issues.

HOWEVER, he was in MLB at age 19. If he had come up at 22 and played until 38 would anyone have an issue? Instead it was 19-35ish and people think he crashed.

and batting avg? c'mon man, not even the voters use that any more. (and the few that did were purged)

He basically did nothing after age 30 though. Up to that point he had phenomenal numbers.

[bravos4evr]

still, top 10 CF'er all time, one of the 3 or 4 best defenders of all time at any position. that has to mean something.

Koufax left early......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

still, top 10 CF'er all time, one of the 3 or 4 best defenders of all time at any position. that has to mean something.

Koufax left early......

Yeah, he did, as did Jim Brown, but they left on top as legends. Andruw left with five horrible seasons including two under .200. We'll see, time will tell I guess.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, he did, as did Jim Brown, but they left on top as legends. Andruw left with five horrible seasons including two under .200. We'll see, time will tell I guess.

see Steve Carlton?

[nat]

Schendienst being in is as much about his post-playing career as it was what he did while he was on the field.

[steve B]

Defensive stats are to me generally nonsense for outfielders. For infielders, they're a bit better because there are fewer missed events because of the nature of the game.

For outfielders, there are a lot more of what I called missed events above. Those are the things that don't happen because a player is better defensively, and that non-happening doesn't generate a stat.
The clearest example is a runner either not running, or not taking an extra base. That's more common in smaller parks, but is especially common with players who throw well. Like Dwight Evans or Ichiro.

I don't think they take the park into account much either. Sure, it's generally not an issue for guys that played in the 70's average sized symmetrical parks, but even good fielders have occasionally looked foolish in Fenway.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

see Steve Carlton?

Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?

[clydepepper]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1683766]Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?[/QUOTE]


Not at all. Just tossing out a general comparison about declining years of any career can leave a lasting impression and still wishing that Carlton had heard the voices of reason a little earlier...it was so ugly. My own career ended much the same way, not that anyone noticed...it was a miserable thing to experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?

He didn't "fall apart" he posted wRC+ of 96, 121,132 and 89 over his last 4 seasons. as 100 is avg, his last 4 seasons he was still 10% above avg hitter.

This is why using the traditional stats can be so misleading as they don't give a very deep portrait of production.

you want to talk garbage, look at Pete Rose's last 7 years, I think his total fWAR for those years is under 1

ETA: it was 1.2 total over last 7 years