My experience with LOTG

[T206Collector]

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

[Bpm0014]

....it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences

I don't even know Al, but couldn't agree more with the above statement.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

I agree with both points here. There are a lof of ebay buyers out there that try to profit by submitting false claims and taking advantage of sellers. And review sites like yelp are ruined my millennials leaving bad reviews because an unreasonable request wasn't honored, or they were too easily offended.

However, in this specific case it seems the opposite is happening. Most of the replies I have read are from members quickly jumping to Al's defense because of his reputation. I mentioned earlier I would not have been pleased with the way this was handled and the delays had I been the buyer. In reading Al's response again the offer of compensation is also less than I would have hoped. A credit for a future auction for completely losing an order? My reaction to this would have been similar to that of the OP. Especially if this was my first experience with LOTG, or any auction house.

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

[orly57]

One of the issues here is "what does it mean to be 'made whole?'" If you owe me $500 and repay it, I am made whole. If you owe me 11 t206s and simply refund what I paid, I am not made whole. I don't want the money. If I did, I wouldn't have spent it on 11 t206's. Unless the cards are found, which I suspect they will be, the OP will never be made whole. I think Jesse's idea of waiving BP on the next purchase is a way of, not only returning the money, but also acknowledging that a mistake was made. Merely returning the money shows no efforts to encourage future business, and makes it seem as if he's been made whole when he has not. Again, this is NOT a shot at Al or LOTG, but if we are having this conversation, then we should address the concept of being made whole and what steps a business should take to make up for mistakes if they intend to keep their Sterling reputation.

[botport]

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.

[botport]

As promised....

[T205 GB]

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

Andrew, I've only have had good experiences with Al and LOTG. However, the OP has not been made "right" yet, as he has still not received his refund check. And what he's said is obviously not slander or libel since Al has admitted to everything that the OP said. You've come closer to slander/libel with your statements than the OP has.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by glchen

Andrew, I've only have had good experiences with Al and LOTG. However, the OP has not been made "right" yet, as he has still not received his refund check. And what he's said is obviously not slander or libel since Al has admitted to everything that the OP said. You've come closer to slander/libel with your statements than the OP has.

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything.

It's not settled until the OP receives cleared funds. A promise to pay does not equate payment. I sold an eBay item that ended 1/1/18 and sent the buyer an immediate invoice. A week goes by and nothing. I sent him another invoice. Nothing. On the eighth day, I sent him a message and asked if he still wanted the item. Below is his response. So by your logic, my buyer's promise to pay is the same thing as payment? I can cancel the NPB claim? Go ahead and ship the item too?

I don't doubt Al sent the check when he said he did. But mail gets lost. Checks don't always clear. You get the point? When the OP has the cleared funds in his bank account, then and only then has he been made whole.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

Slander and libel are easily and often confused. Slander and liable? Not so much.

I'm not an attorney so to those who are please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the truth is an absolute defense to either one.

Also, the OP didn't receive what he paid for and didn't even get his money back. "The check's in the mail" is not the same as being made whole by any definition that I'm aware of.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

libel? or held liable .....

[orly57]

1. Slander or libel is only applicable when what you are alleging is false. Since Al verified it to be true, it is neither slander nor libel.
2. Calling him a whiner or crybaby and telling him to put his pants on, or whatever caveman comment you made, only shows your lack of objectivity here.
3. If you can have empathy for one side, why can't you have it for the other? I personally think it's unfortunate for both sides. The OP appears to be a decent guy, and we know Al is beloved.
4. If you bought a nice card or cards and they were lost, I doubt you would handle it very well. I don't know you, and won't judge you by one post, but the tone of your post belies a man who is less than understanding, and who would flip his lid were one of his precious t205s lost by a business whose job it is to sell and deliver those items.
5. Unfortunately, we live in a political climate where we are forced to take sides. A climate where you are either with us or against us. A climate where miles of gray area are overlooked for the few inches of partisan territory. It's rather sad. And it is particularly sad when it spills over into a forum of guys who all share the same passion, and should ostensibly, understand and help eachother out.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by orly57

Unfortunately, we live in a political climate where we are forced to take sides. A climate where you are either with us or against us. A climate where miles of gray area are overlooked for the few inches of partisan territory. It's rather sad. And it is particularly sad when it spills over into a forum of guys who all share the same passion, and should ostensibly, understand and help each other out.

This.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by orly57

4. If you bought a nice card or cards and they were lost, I doubt you would handle it very well. I don't know you, and won't judge you by one post, but the tone of your post belies a man who is less than understanding, and who would flip his lid were one of his precious t205s lost by a business whose job it is to sell and deliver those items.

You must have missed the hieroglyphics I made in a post in regards to the same happening to me just above^. Thing is I was not pissed. I let The AH owner handle the issue and was compensated for what the card was worth. It took way longer than week or two to settle. If you PM me I would be happy to share the person and AH to contact if you need to validate my story. Problem is instead of letting it be he kept making comments about how he was done so wrong. Al isn't going to tell the OP to Piss off but I sure the f^ck can. There are not many people in this Hobby I would take a lashing for but I guarantee you the ones I would do it for is because of who they are to me.(Not related to Al BTW)

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by botport

... In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

A few things cross my mind in reading this.

1. You're likely not one of the cool kids in the schoolyard, so you have less credibility that LOTG. Unfortunately some folks have immediately jumped on you, based on LOTG's reputation (and your lack of one).

2. I bid in a lot of auctions, but I don't know if I ever have from LOTG. Therefore I don't have a lot of experience with Al. I do know LOTG is one of the cool kids, as there are plenty of positive comments about Al and the company he runs. Therefore when I opened this thread, I was somewhat intrigued as to the issue.

3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

4. Maybe someone else doesn't have the cards, and Al's dog ate them, or the cleaning crew stole them, or they were thrown out with a bunch of other garbage he had.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

[TUM301]

Paging Sgt. Hulka, Sgt. Hulka to the front of the store please.

[botport]

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by botport

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

Glad to hear it was sorted out. Best wishes to your future endeavors. Maybe just a titch more patience. Then again you can tell me to f*** off for the grief I gave you also. Either way glad to hear it's all settled.

[botport]

I think you are a piece of shit.

But that is another thread for another day.

Frank Horvath.

[7nohitter]

Frank,

Very glad to hear that Al found the cards, and an incredible offer for him to let you keep the refund...also a great move on your part not to take it since the card were found.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Maybe just a titch more patience.

Seller received cleared payment 12/10 and has been sitting on them for a month now. Yeah, maybe just a titch more patience. Clearly he should have waited two months.

Whether you agree with the OP's methods or not, it worked. Period. I really don't think he would have received his cards if not for this thread.

That's not a knock against Al, I truly believe it was an honest mistake. But the squeaking wheel gets the grease.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by botport

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

[Jacklitsch]

1952...

That post confirms everything I've heard about you.

[Fred]

Slander!
Libel!
Defamation of character!

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...-slander-libel

Jesus de Christo.... WTF....

Just want to say I've got nothing but good to say about LOTG. Shit happens, it's not like LOTG planned this or even wanted this. Same goes for the OP, I'm sure he'd rather just have the cards.

So, if I were to call Leon (our gracious moderator) the king of the terds, is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a violent axe murderer, (even though he isn't, well I don't think he is) is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a thief that stole my collection of cards (even though he didn't), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) an egotistical douchebag piece of shit and can surpass Donald Trump on the idiot scale (even though we know he's a mild mannered moderator), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else? In that case I'd say that's probably all of them....

Let's all lighten up a bit - this situation sucks for both LOTG and Frank. What's going to be really sad is if the check never reaches Frank because it was somehow destroyed or lost by the postal service. Sorry, I'm going to believe that LOTG sent out the check because that's just the way it sounds like Al does business.

Frank, the way it sounds, the last communication you had with Al was on 28DEC17. Is that correct? If so, that would have been 10 days before you made this post. Personally, I'd have contacted Al again before I made a post like this. If things work out the way most of us predict, then you're going to feel like a dick (oh crap, is that slander, libel or defamation). Really sorry to hear about the bad experience, for both you and Al.

In any case, congratulations to Orlando on his 700th post and hoping that this thread will soon die out so we can all get back to thinking that Leon is a gracious moderator rather than any of the things mentioned or indicated in this post.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

Huh?? It's pretty obvious why. Payoff?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

A few things cross my mind in reading this.



3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

You do realize cabinets are just boxes........baseball cards are just card board....now if baseball cards were cardboard boxes we would be on to something..

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by botport

first off to al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that i put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this i commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should i have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this i feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) i received my auction winnings.
2) i was reimbursed in what i felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since i have posted this thread it has been suggested that i be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give lotg a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what i did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, i am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because i do not want to bump this thread again.

+1000

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by botport

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.

Always nice to see a happy ending but the OP is getting crushed and I can’t comprehend it.

Happy New Year 🎊

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

I really like that idea. I have no doubt that the entire situation was just an honest mistake, but something like waiving the buyer's premium (up to a certain amount) would have been a really decent way of apologizing to the buyer. Seems like that would have been a way of keeping a customer instead of losing one, which is apparently what has happened.

[Frank A]

It all boils down to one thing. The buyer paid for the cards he won but never got them and I guess as of yet has not been sent a refund check yet. I don't care who the auction house is or how good a guy he is supposed to be, I would be pissed off. I hope the buyer gets this settled quickly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

[packs]

My advice to the AH and OP is to troll eBay over the next few months. All of the serial numbers are visible on the cards so if they come up for sale you'll know who has them.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

If Al mistakenly sent all of the 11 PSA cards as one group to one other person he could check all his shipping receipts for package weights from the last auction and determine who he sent the cards to. Cards in PSA holders weigh approximately 1.7 oz.
1.7x 11 = Over 1 pound of cards!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH?

I very rarely sell on eBay anymore, but I did sell a few items last week. I mail all my items in person at the post office. I'm looking at the postal receipt right now and it lists the weight of each package on the receipt. I know auction houses probably use a different postal software, but does it capture the weight of the package anywhere? You have to figure 11 graded cards is significant weight and I would be looking for a package that was shipped that weighed more than it should have. Anyway, just a thought.

Edited to add: Charlie and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

I was mistakenly sent a pair of sneakers via an ebay buy about a year ago. I received them and sent them back asap. The seller sent me some money via paypal to cover the shipping. He told me that he was stunned I returned the $150 sneakers.

[orly57]

Yeah Jeff, but let's be honest, if they were Big Baller Brand or even the right size.....

[Exhibitman]

I can feel for both sides here, as I've been on both sides.

As a bidder/buyer I expect to get my winnings in a timely manner. I would definitely be disappointed if I did not. If the AH explained that something is lost and they are trying to track it down, I'd expect them to take a few days and do that. I had it happen to me recently where an eBay seller mixed up two sets of cards and sent my Brooklyn Dodgers TI set to the winner of the Yankees TI set and vice versa. I returned the Yankees set immediately. Asshat Yankees buyer kept my Dodgers cards (my set was more valuable and sold for more due to the # of HOFers in it including early Drysdale and Koufax cards). And it was the seller's fault, 100%. So I get the frustration, believe me; instead of adding a desirable Koufax to my collection I got a refund. But the seller took care of it. What burns me to this day is that some jerk kept the mistaken set.

As a seller, this has happened to me a couple of times with eBay lots. Each time I've had to go through my collection and storage, and the item was just misfiled or filed other than where I thought it should be. Only once has it gone completely AWOL. So I get allowing the seller a bit of time to find a missing item.

Now, in terms of Al's saintly nature, I am biased because he is my friend (heck, I camp at his table at the National), but let me give you all another story. I lost the check from my last consignment. I let Al know and he immediately cut me a replacement check. It took a week to get here: mailed on the 26th, arrived a week later. Weather and holidays. A little perspective is warranted here. The holidays and a bomb cyclone can really f*** up a business schedule and mails. If the check arrives shortly, I hope the OP will post the envelope and check here (sans ID info) to show when it was cut and mailed, as represented.

[h2oya311]

I’ve bought and consigned items with Al in the past. He was very fair when it came to an item I had consigned that was subsequently lost (before getting auctioned off). All it takes is an email and a little patience. I recall that his bank is a small little credit union or something to that nature, so checks aren’t always delivered expeditiously. If he said he issued you a refund, that’s exactly what he did.

Given the number of t206 collectors on this board, whoever decides to re-sell those cards that don’t rightfully belong to him, I hope this comes back to bite him in the a$$.

Also, imagine if you were in Als shoes and trying to find the missing cards. I’d much rather wait as long as possible to find them (and hope a person came forward with the extra cards) and later send them along to the buyer with an apology / auction credit for the delay. The alternative would be to issue a refund and have to re-run the cards at auction if they came back later (assuming the buyer no longer wanted them). If said cards then sell for $700, now you’ve got an angry consignor if you don’t make him whole as well. What a mess!

That said, while I wouldn’t go about things the way the OP did, I certainly can see his POV, especially if this is a first-time xp with LOTG. Hopefully the comments made by board members will quell any fears you may have that you won’t be getting the refund you deserve. You will.

[oldjudge]

I think it is unanimously agreed that Al is a good guy. However, my sense is that Al is struggling as a one man band in NJ to do all the jobs necessary to run a mid size auction, especially one putting out a nice catalog. If economics allow, Al might be well served to add an employee in NJ to help with the day to day tasks which would free Al up to do more consignment hunting.
Also, on a side note, Derek's post raises an interesting point. One of his consignment lots was lost before being auctioned off. At that point he was offered a settlement price for that lot. Al was fair and Derek was sayisfied. However, It is not always the case that a consignor will walk away satisfied if an event like that occurs. For higher value consignments consignors should consider stipulating individual insurance values for each lot and include these figures in the consignment agreement. That way if a lot is lost the consignor need not rely on the fairness of the auction house. In general, consignors need to read the consignor agreement, attempt to strike out terms they view as objectionable, and remember that everything is negotiable; the consignor agreement is just the auction houses' first offer.

[Frank A]

Andrew: Learn the facts before you make a dumb ass post. No one has made good yet. The guy is pissed. I don't blame him. Frank

[conor912]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

For higher value consignments consignors should consider stipulating individual insurance values for each lot and include these figures in the consignment agreement.

You mean they're not already?! I've never consigned to an auction house and never read a consignment agreement, but there's no way I'd ever hand someone something of value without the approximate market value and clear steps to be taken and payout to be received from said AH if it "goes missing". That's just crazy to me and would think it leaves both sides open to a world of heartache.

[glynparson]

Wow some people are really ignorant. Al makes a mistake makes it right and some fools say they won't bid with him. The man is human he made an error he admitted such and did what he could to correct it. Then another jerk piles on with the asinine oh it must have sold cheap so al didn't ship it. That's a load of crap and insulting to a very honest man. You owe Al an apology for such a freaking ignorant dumb a$$ statement. Then instead of issuing said apology you double down on the stupidity. Al sorry you had to prove you were human and have to deal with such utter nonsense. This happend over the holidays people remember to factor that into the equation. This will have zero impact on my bidding with LOTG. Still as good as they come, but al is still just a human and therefore can make a mistake. Jake do you even know Al or do you just get off playing the jerk off behind the safety of your keyboard? Keep doing the right thing Al those that know you know your a great guy and have your back.

[Chris-Counts]

"I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be ..."

Perhaps it is simply a reflection of a world obsessed with social media and immediate gratification, but I, too, am surprised by how quickly some folks go into public intervention mode. I've had a couple buyers open disputes without even asking me to resolve their issues. Last year I bought something off eBay that was incorrectly sent to another eBay buyer's home. I received the other buyer's item, so I simply mailed it to him. But my package was inadvertently sent to the other buyer's summer home, so I had to wait a few months until the snow melted until I got my item. I was disappointed by the wait, but it passed quickly ...