Does Pre-war mean pre-1939?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

Right, which is why he said that 1939 cards are pre-war.

The OP says that he was told that cards had to be before 1939. That is not right. 1941 Play Ball has always been considered prewar.

The September 1939 date is an arbitrary one, based on England declaring war on Germany. The war had began in Asia with Japan invading Manchuria in 1931, followed by Italy invading Ethiopia in 1935, Japan invading China in 1937 and Germany annexing Austria in 1938. The war didn't become a true world war until Germany invaded Russia June 22, 1941 and Japan attacked Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941. That is why I consider anything 1941 or before prewar.

[Mark]

The pre-war cut off for British, French, Polish, and German cards is 1939. Russian cards are pre-war up until 41. Spanish cards must have been issued before 1936 to be pre-war. Japanese cards are pre-war only up to 1937. In the USA, pre-war is 1941 and before. Canadian cards, however, have to have been issued before 1939 to be pre-war.

[pokerplyr80]

As there is no separate during war category I've always thought post war starts after 1945, when the war ended. Prewar would be anything issued in 1945 or before.

[DaveW]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

As there is no separate during war category I've always thought post war starts after 1945, when the war ended. Prewar would be anything issued in 1945 or before.

My thoughts exactly. Pre-war is really "not post-war", so pre-1945.

[seanofjapan]

Really it makes no sense to draw a line between pre and post war since they don’t run consecutively. A more accurate periodization I think would be

Pre 1941 = prewar
1942-1947 = interregnum
After 1948 = postwar

[Leon]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Really it makes no sense to draw a line between pre and post war since they don’t run consecutively. A more accurate periodization I think would be

Pre 1941 = prewar
1942-1947 = interregnum
After 1948 = postwar

The middle one is disqualified because I can't pronounce. it.
.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Leon

The middle one is disqualified because I can't pronounce. it.
.

I thought Interregnum was something you rub on sore joints?

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Really it makes no sense to draw a line between pre and post war since they don’t run consecutively. A more accurate periodization I think would be

Pre 1941 = prewar
1942-1947 = interregnum
After 1948 = postwar

You seem to have 1941 and 1948 as orphans :-)

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by rats60

The OP says that he was told that cards had to be before 1939.

I'm only trying to point out the the OP quoted the article incorrectly. The author stated that he believed in using Pre-1940, not Pre-1939.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I'm only trying to point out the the OP quoted the article incorrectly. The author stated that he believed in using Pre-1940, not Pre-1939.

In all seriousness, the US wasn't involved in the war until the end of 1941, long after Play Ball had finished issuing its 1941 set, no? The war is the great dividing line becasue that's when Play Ball got out of the baseball card business.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by Mark

In all seriousness, the US wasn't involved in the war until the end of 1941, long after Play Ball had finished issuing its 1941 set, no? The war is the great dividing line becasue that's when Play Ball got out of the baseball card business.

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

[mr2686]

Just a casual collector here, and I know far less about cards than I do autographs, so if my premise is flawed, please correct me. Anyway, aren't most of the cards/sets we're talking about from American companies? Isn't Baseball an American game? With that in mind, wouldn't it make sense that pre-war means pre American involvement (pre Pearl Harbor)?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

the British stopped issuing cigarette cards in 1940. their pre-war cards have a fixed end date. the "pre-war" label will vary from country to country, and so picking 1940 as the cut off date for US cards does not make any sense. Play Ball 1941 is not a wartime card for the US collector.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by Mark

the British stopped issuing cigarette cards in 1940. their pre-war cards have a fixed end date. the "pre-war" label will vary from country to country, and so picking 1940 as the cut off date for US cards does not make any sense. Play Ball 1941 is not a wartime card for the US collector.

We're just going to keep going in circles. I believe that 1940 is a good compromise date since different countries entered the war at different times.

[Exhibitman]

Pearl Harbor is a clear line for US cards. If America wasn't at war at the time, an American card issue is a pre-war card by definition.

[brianp-beme]

The vast majority of baseball cards were marketed and distributed in the United States (with a nod to Canada), including all of the major ones produced for the national market, such as Goudey, Play Ball and Double Play. This production virtually stopped with Pearl Harbor and the aforementioned paper rationing.

To try to peg an European dateline to a term that involves such an USA-centric activity such as the mass production of baseball cards doesn't seem practical to me. There is no need to change the informally acknowledged and traditional application of the term PreWW2 from cards produced 1941 and before.

It just makes dang ethnocentric sense!

Brian

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

Long before the two main allied powers entered the war?He is not including 1940 sets is he? Then he is using no compromise date. He is using the British date, when the Russian date would be almost 2 years later and the American date would be more than 2 years later.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by rats60

Long before the two main allied powers entered the war?He is not including 1940 sets is he? Then he is using no compromise date. He is using the British date, when the Russian date would be almost 2 years later and the American date would be more than 2 years later.

The compromise is between 1939 and 1941. I just don't see how this is so controversial and why people are so upset that one person's opinion is that 1940 is a good dividing line to make things simple.

[DHogan]

I've always considered prewar to mean anything before the US entered in the war. I have a few non-sports cards from the War Gum. From Gum Inc. The copyright says 1942. What era would these be considered ?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

The compromise is between 1939 and 1941. I just don't see how this is so controversial and why people are so upset that one person's opinion is that 1940 is a good dividing line to make things simple.

How about when Great Britain declared war on Japan? I am sorry, I don't see what the compromise is. It is we should go with when Great Britain declared war on Germany and ignore their interactions with Italy and Japan and completely ignore Russia and USA. How is that any compromise? The war didn't fully begin until 1941.