Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[T206Collector]

Here’s another one for the investigation team. Sold on eBay last summer, an American Beauty backed signed Livingston on the reverse. Thoughts on this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Paddy-...-/362320695143

Better res pics available here:

https://imgur.com/2zaWcwy

https://imgur.com/nLJ87Wc

[HobokenJon]

Thoughts, yes. It’s slabbed with no affirmative evidence of authenticity. It’s thus presumed fraudulent until demonstrated convincingly otherwise. The slab has negative value because it precludes a knowledgeable third party from conducting a proper examination, including testing the ink, which on its face looks awfully suspicious in its boldness. At least the person who signed it or programmed the auto-pen knew that Livingston’s name was misspelled on the front of the card.

[painthistorian]

Hello everyone....I am very appalled about seeing a guy who bought a card from us in Feb 2015 and now probably used this card to forge Home Run Baker's name. I saw the screenshot that was provided on this topic and spent two hours looking up the feedback left for us in date order over last three years thru e bay and we have his e bay ID..I do not have any paperwork left from 2015 since we moved to a smaller location after the sale of my home but I matched up the e bay item # to the feedback left and it MATCHES EXACTLY....I will not post this name(ID) publicly but I will provide this information to any attorney that is representing these collectors that got burned, I am positive I have his e bay ID and transaction # thru e bay and I want to be careful here. If Adam Warshaw, Jeff Lichtman or another lawyer can tell me how I can provide this info without violating any privacy laws, I want to help the hobby rid someone who forges. I personally was burned by a So. California Rock N Roll album vendor who is now deceased and her operation was a huge scandal, I lost a lot of money so I have NO love for this type of guy.

[Jasonxmay]

I am an attorney and there are no privacy laws that would prevent you from disclosing the username. eBay usernames are by their nature public and therefore are not confidential. You would only risk liability if you made false statements in conjunction with releasing the name.

Jason May
Oklahoma Bar No. 22644

Originally Posted by painthistorian

Hello everyone....I am very appalled about seeing a guy who bought a card from us in Feb 2015 and now probably used this card to forge Home Run Baker's name. I saw the screenshot that was provided on this topic and spent two hours looking up the feedback left for us in date order over last three years thru e bay and we have his e bay ID..I do not have any paperwork left from 2015 since we moved to a smaller location after the sale of my home but I matched up the e bay item # to the feedback left and it MATCHES EXACTLY....I will not post this name(ID) publicly but I will provide this information to any attorney that is representing these collectors that got burned, I am positive I have his e bay ID and transaction # thru e bay and I want to be careful here. If Adam Warshaw, Jeff Lichtman or another lawyer can tell me how I can provide this info without violating any privacy laws, I want to help the hobby rid someone who forges. I personally was burned by a So. California Rock N Roll album vendor who is now deceased and her operation was a huge scandal, I lost a lot of money so I have NO love for this type of guy.

[painthistorian]

Jason- are you representing any of these clients that are being swindled...? I will provide the e bay ID name and the backup e bay paperwork verification for the hobby's sake, but not on a public forum, if you are actively going to represent one of the buyers, especially the poor guy that bought the Baker signed, plmk.

Also, this guy is still a current vendor on e bay, sold autographs that did look real, none were 3rd party authenticated, none very expensive, also sold 2 old boxed Wilson baseballs unsigned.

[Jasonxmay]

I’m in an interesting position because I am the poor guy who bought the Frank Baker, but I bought it from REA in the Fall of 2015 for $9,000. I then consigned it to REA last month and some other poor guy bought it for $24,000. I don’t expect that I will end up representing anyone in regard to this issue, but if you’d like to email me the information as a way to insulate yourself I don’t mind being the person responsible for releasing it publicly. My email address is: jasonmayesq@yahoo.com. I’ll consider your email to be an attorney-client communication so I will need you to expressly authorize me to disclose the user name since your communication with me would be privileged.

Originally Posted by painthistorian

Jason- are you representing any of these clients that are being swindled...? I will provide the e bay ID name and the backup e bay paperwork verification for the hobby's sake, but not on a public forum, if you are actively going to represent one of the buyers, especially the poor guy that bought the Baker signed, plmk.

[painthistorian]

Dear Jason- I will PM my confidential cell phone and I would like you to call me tomorrow...If you state that you will be responsible to use this verified information to further the investigation, I will give you the info and the backup paperwork that shows the info thru system, but I want to talk to you personally...Thank You

[mantlefan]

Late to the show here, but this really sucks. I've never owned a signed T206, but I've been tempted. My sympathies to the fellows here who have been scammed. Props to Manny for sniffing this out.

[lowpopper]

Let's all draw blood and poke it with a hot needle.

[The Nasty Nati]

I think this will help my argument that this is the Cicotte. Someone unfortunately paid $11k for it. And like some of the other cards the forger added a couple new scuffs to the signature version.

And can anyone explain how I can post a bigger image? It keeps getting shrinked. The actual images are much bigger/clearer.

Here's a link to the bigger images:
https://imgur.com/a/ywpBCWl
https://imgur.com/a/oxiuEzF


Screen Shot 2018-11-30 at 12.01.33 AM.jpg

[atx840]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

I think this will help my argument that this is the Cicotte. Someone unfortunately paid $11k for it. And like some of the other cards the forger added a couple new scuffs to the signature version.

And can anyone explain how I can post a bigger image? It keeps getting shrinked. The actual images are much bigger/clearer.

Definitely the same card.

[Dewey]

Found this.

[painthistorian]

Dewey- although we rather have had Jason handle this since he is an attorney, and since this public information is now posted on a public forum, I can verify this is the same ID we found through the REPLY TO FEEDBACK RECEIVED pathway.
WE OBVIOUSLY CANNOT CONFIRM that this card was not resold to another person after we sold this to the bidder, possibly at a later date, so you do need other screen shot PROOF(before & after card ID's) that were sold by other e bayers to this bidder to cross verify its the same guy.

[Dewey]

Apologies if I jumped the gun. I've edited my post just in case it is the best thing to do. Will be happy to hear from mods or wiser heads via pm if I should restore my post.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Here’s another one for the investigation team. Sold on eBay last summer, an American Beauty backed signed Livingston on the reverse. Thoughts on this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Paddy-...-/362320695143

Better res pics available here:

https://imgur.com/2zaWcwy

https://imgur.com/nLJ87Wc

I hope the Livingston auto is real. If not, then at least the forger knew better to not add the "e" to the end of the name.

This just really pisses me off. A lot of us have been in this hobby since we were kids. Now I'm really starting to hate something that I grew up loving.

This hobby is turning into a sham (has been for a while):

• PSA8 trimmed Wagner
• PSA graded “Hall” collection T206s
• all the fake cards
• all the fake autographs
• and now this - what some people consider an industry expert in autograph authentication looks like it doesn’t have a clue in what they’re doing (finally proving what a lot of people have been saying for a long time....)

JSA is going to come out stinking on this but somehow I get the feeling they’ll get past this (unfortunately). Personally, I hope this sinks JSA and somehow a hobby evolution starts where things get cleaned up.... you know what they say, "wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills up faster"...

I cannot possibly understand how T206Collector and others scammed by this/these assholes must be feeling right now.

[theshleps]

I have the fake T206 Flick bought in the Feb 2016 Hunt auction. I probably own close to 20 signed tobacco cards (T206, 205, 202, etc), I posted half a dozen or so. The rest I am very confident in and are mainly Marquards. I only collect HOFers. This forger dealt alot with shakier end of life signatures tho not exclusively
Emotions are mixed. I am glad I have another Flick that is good.
I would like to see the forger in jail and I would like someone to refund the $ I spent. I have always expectedt a small % of my signed cards to be fake (I have about 5000 signed) tho most were bought from very reputable sources, and I expect TPA's a small % of the time to make mistakes. I would love to somehow get the forger to publish a list of all the cards he forged and sold tho that is most likely wishful thinking. For the past few years I have thought about liquidating my collection and just keeping one of each HOFer (mostly in autograph books which are much more likely to be legit).
I was never that comfortable with SGC and recently decided to get some of my valuable cards slabbed with PSA. I spent 2 days with Bill Corcoran who taught me much and he had the highest level of integrity and concern for unearthing fakes. After Bill gave his opinion Kevin Keating and 2 others also looked everything over. I was very impressed tho I fought TPAs for many years. These guys do want to clean up the hobby.
I do think the TPAs should delineate what they do- do they just look at the signature, do they look like Manny did for the card in an unsigned version, can they date the ink? etc. It would be nice to know the whole process. Alot comes down to cost benefit ratio. If I give them 20 Koufax at $20 each including the slabbing process it they can't do exhaustive searches etc. I'd have to be willing to pay more for a more exhaustive examination. It is an opinion of someone who hopefully is learned like Bill and Kevin. I always used to run my possibly purchases by Jim Stinson and Ron Gordon. I have a love hate relationship with autograph collecting and I love the friendships I have made. I may pull the plug like Jason did (great timing Jason). I fell bad for Paul as I only have a bad Flick so far compared to him.
I am trying to not get too freaked out but it is a travesty