Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[AGuinness]

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

Excellent point. To me there is no greater proof than a physical witness or at the very least a picture of an athlete signing that particular item (although nowadays you can also photoshop that in).

Also, even TTM autos are a gamble. Many of those autographs are not signed by the actual athlete, but by their assistant or spouse. In the 1970s my mom worked with a high profile actress and she signed all of her autographs for her.

[Pat R]

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Tannehill Auto.jpg

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Attachment 335937

Ahhh, finally! I've been looking for that one.

List updated.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Ahhh, finally! I've been looking for that one.

List updated.

SAME, Pat has the eye....must be from scouring the web for all those plate scratches.

GREAT WORK PAT!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by atx840

SAME, Pat has the eye....must be from scouring the web for all those plate scratches.

GREAT WORK PAT!

I have given out the info I have to Pat R and other parties to help in this endeavor. I just don't think making the info public at this moment is the right thing to do. But the info is disseminating nicely. I have asked each party to keep it to themselves for now. Thanks to all members who are helping with this.

And to answer Jeff Ls questions, Law enforcement has been notified by myself and at least one major AH.

And on the other question, I think at least a few of the authenticated autos have to be good, right? Y'all know the old blind squirrel anecdote.

[SikSyko]

I was looking at some of those Marquard's. So happy I got cold feet.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Jesse Tannehill.

Attachment 335937

Thanks for this. I was already going to send mine back to REA, but this means whatever lingering doubt I had can be cast aside.

[Powell]

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

[Jasonxmay]

Powell,

As you know, the Speaker was mine. I know it was owned by a collector here in Oklahoma prior to me purchasing it from Goodwin Auctions. I saw a scan of it on sportscollectors.net around 2008, so I know it’s history at least that far. I don’t personally know the prior owner, but Robert Taylor is a fellow collector here in Oklahoma and he knows him. I believe Robert told me that the prior owner has purchased it over 30 years ago. I can’t speak for the others, but the Speaker definitely existed well before this forger or forgery ring went to work.

Also, I think you were the buyer of the Frank Baker that was proven to be fake. I contacted Brian at REA and approved him withholding the purchase price from my consignment check. He’s a stand up guy and he informed me that he had already refunded the buyer. He’s also refunding me what I paid for the card through REA back in 2015. I’m really impressed with how REA has handled the situation.

Jason

Originally Posted by Powell

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

[Republicaninmass]

I have not heard from hunt auctions, they are aware, and hoping they know the consignor of the group of t206s. It looks like a majority were purchased by f***f and tried to pass jsa and sgc before heading to clean sweep and hunt.

[ALBB]

Im so glad I don't collect autograph's of any kind !

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Powell

I'd greatly appreciate any help on the authenticity of the signatures in my signed T 206 collection:

In addition to Jason's comments on Speaker above, I can tell you that the following 4 cards in your collection originated from the Pittsburgh Find:

Marquard Portrait (one of 2)
Livingston (only 1)
Both of your McBrides (2 of 6)

Hope this helps. Did you acquire any of the others after October 1, 2015?

[Fred]

Doh....

Manny, thanks for the links in page 1. Something that just occurred to me was that most of these have SGC flips. At first I saw a lot of red and assumed PSA but that's not the case. Who certified these for SGC?

How many of these were JSA certified? Hasn't JSA partnered with a lot of the main TPGs (SGC, PSA and Beckett)? Does he still have an affiliation with all of them?

[thenavarro]

Very valuable thread. I love how the examples have practically irrefutable proof of forgery.

Good work to those involved in sleuthing this out.

Mike

[painthistorian]

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ograph-scheme/

This article may be related somehow to the same group that was arrested & is possibly producing these fake T206's come from same town...The buyer of our T206 baker(unsigned), later "signed" and authenticated and sold in REA came from a small town of pop 9000 in Ohio. I know the e bay item # seen in worthpoint and posted by Pat exactly matches our reply to feedback research which also contains same e bay id #, and also shows his handle. I dont have his name, nor do I have his original hard copy invoice...but I do know from the research we conducted that his history from his ID(prior to being blocked) referred to location: Girard, Ohio.

The noose is closing.

[thenavarro]

Is that Marino related to the Marino's from Operation Bullpen infamy?

Originally Posted by painthistorian

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ograph-scheme/

This article may be related somehow to the same group that was arrested & is possibly producing these fake T206's come from same town...The buyer of our T206 baker(unsigned), later "signed" and authenticated and sold in REA came from a small town of pop 9000 in Ohio. I know the e bay item # seen in worthpoint and posted by Pat exactly matches our reply to feedback research which also contains same e bay id #, and also shows his handle. I dont have his name, nor do I have his original hard copy invoice...but I do know from the research we conducted that his history from his ID(prior to being blocked) referred to location: Girard, Ohio.

The noose is closing.

[1treasuretrove]

Once again, great detective work. This is such a sad story but is a great read - I keep checking back and hoping an update on identification of the forger. I took a quick peek at the summary of this thread on page one and noted that the TPAs for the ones identified are mostly SGC and JSA but the highest dollar one is the PSA/DNA Baker.

For my own interest, I made a quick list for TPA tracking...

# Signature Certification
1 Fred Parent SGC Authentic & JSA
2 Billy Sullivan SGC Authentic & JSA
3 Bob Rhoades SGC Authentic
4 Paddy Livingston SGC Authentic
5 Frank Baker PSA/DNA
6 Elmer Flick SGC Authentic
7 Heinie Zimmerman SGC Authentic
8 Wid Conroy SGC Authentic
9 Larry Doyle SGC Authentic
10 Jap Barbeau SGC Authentic
11 Red Murray SGC Authentic
12 Eddie Cicotte SGC Authentic
13 Nap Rucker SGC Authentic & JSA
14 Jesse Tannehill
15 Rube Marquard JSA

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Is that Marino related to the Marino's from Operation Bullpen infamy?

Well, if this is the same family or group of conspirators, then it might be very easy to get the law enforcement back involved as this may be a parole violation. Therefore the sentences for further offenses would be magnified.

[itslarry]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

45 pages of posts already... and on one, somebody mentioned the experience of getting an autograph at a show, taking it to a TPG booth and it not passing.

It hit me - why the heck don't TPGs that have booths at shows offer a service to witness the auto in person and then slab it there, they could even include "WITNESSED" on the flip? I would guess there would be many people willing to shell out extra $$ for this, and it would certainly be a welcome addition for anybody looking to purchase an autograph.

They do for comics. Signature series I believe. Gets a special golden flip.

[swarmee]

I think the main issue with certifying cards at shows of the show signers is mainly of logistics. Since some shows have 5-10 signers at a time, they'd have to have at least that many witnesses.

[johnmh71]

Another example of why I feel that autograph collecting has become both the best and worst hobby.

[ruth-gehrig]

Apologies if these two have already been discussed that sold in Hunt's October monthly auction. While the Barbeau is SGC, the McBride is a PSA example.

I would have provided a direct link but we all know Hunt's website is horrendous and I cant even figure out how to search their completed monthly auctions.

[rommesc]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Apologies if these two have already been discussed that sold in Hunt's October monthly auction. While the Barbeau is SGC, the McBride is a PSA example.

I would have provided a direct link but we all know Hunt's website is horrendous and I cant even figure out how to search their completed monthly auctions.

See post 194 showing the before and after photos of the forged Barbeau card. The McBride is an exact match to one of the six McBride cards from The Great Pittsburg find.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by rommesc

See post 194 showing the before and after photos of the forged Barbeau card. The McBride is an exact match to one of the six McBride cards from The Great Pittsburg find.

So what you're saying is that the cards from the Great Pittsburgh find are bad too. No, stop, it can't be.

Here's another tip: don't take expert advice from people who have been defrauded more than anyone seeking their advice.

[swarmee]

Maybe I misinterpreted him on the McBride, but I thought he meant that those were all good, and this card is clean because if its provenance.