Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[irv]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

This exactly. Way too many people follow here opinion as facts. These people are sheep and when they get slaughtered I feel very little sympathy for them. Let me clarify, you are paying for an opinion. Those opinions differ amongst authenticators. Just because you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn’t mean they should reimburse you anything. I can’t believe the arguments that people are trying to make when the opinion someone gives turns out to be wrong. It is a completely different story if you can prove that the opinion given is wrong and the authenticator is knowingly authenticating a non authentic item. People need to stop throwing blame at other people and look in the mirror.

I respectfully disagree with both of you.

Imo, and although I am still learning as I go here, when I first back into the hobby and realized we now had "Authenticators" in all forms of the hobby, including signatures, I took that as a guarantee that if I submitted something that I had questions/concerns about, and, depending on what the "Expert Authenticator" deemed, I could take that to the bank that it was legit or not legit.

It's the same, imo, as finding an old painting at a flea market or something similar but not knowing, once you discovered a popular artist might have painted it, whether it is authentic or not so you send it in to a well known authenticator to find out for sure.

I am not an art collector so I don't know the ins and outs of those types of authenticators, but I am pretty sure, depending on who you send it to, that you can pretty much guarantee that whatever they say will likely stick and be the truth.

With cards and memorabilia, despite the claims of being "Experts" "The best in the business" "World's Leading", yada, yada, yada, you are still telling me the only real thing to trust is my gut?

I know now what you're saying to be true, but I guarantee, as we have seen in the past and just recently, I am not the only one who thinks this way. When you read on TPA sites that they "Authenticate" and are the "Experts" in their field, have certificates, letters of authenticity, etc, you trust those claims, (especially if you aren't an experienced, seasoned collector like me) and put all your faith in them.

Sadly, as I have learned, much/all of those claims don't mean squat and aren't worth the paper they are written on.

It's quite the racket these TPAs have going. Throw out some frivolous, meaningless claims and then watch the money roll in.

[RedsFan1941]

"Never get cheated."

[painthistorian]

After reading recent posts, and being that I was around a long time in this hobby/business, here is a quick summary of what I think really is important to the industry regarding autographs:

Pre TPG's-It was the wild west....a collector had to rely and know people that actually handled many type of autographs such as Charles Hamilton, Robert White, Max Schraeger, Bill P.(long last name, very knowledgable), Richard Simon, Lawrence(from Westbury, LI that runs monthly auctions, forgot his last name), but even then, there were many "experts" that were BS...some even ran large autograph auctions and had an agenda in that they graded their own sales merchandise and authenticated their own auction items!

Since TPG-Its has been better in that most of the crap has been filtered out and even if TPG make errors, they do have a larger exemplar file than the average collector. FUNDAMENTALLY, AUTOGRAPHS NOT RECEIVED in person or from legal/government documents are a leap of faith to some degree. The major authenticators now, well none of these guys were in the hobby before 1980's and they started as collectors, they just spent lots more time in acquiring knowledge and files. Unfortunately, some of their findings were and are wrong but that was always a problem....

"Reputable Companies" like PSA,SGC,Beckett,JSA...well most of the graders are very knowledgable, have acquired vast libraries of historical item sample. If collectors require certs, those that issue the certs with siome educated opinion deserve to be paid for their educated opinions and time depending on Supply(time) vs. Demand(the need to get a cert) and what the free market will bear.
If a collector wants them to do a thorough examination to get his "CERT" then it makes sense with the very nature of that part of the collectible world, that the THE BUYER should do their homework also. THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS IS STILL CAVIET EMPTOR. DONT BUY ANYTHING unless you feel the percentages are vastly are in your favor FIRST! By not educating yourselves, you are MORE dependent on 3rd party graders and hence the more the cost of the grading will be...

It is IMPERATIVE for collectors to educate themselves going forward and look at as many public exemplars as possible, talk to quality & reliable dealers that have been around over 30+ years and have seen more items, just to have some check & balances if you plan to plunk down real $$$...It is better now than it was but its still a leap of faith and the free market will determine future prices and demand depending on these mentioned factors.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by irv

It's the same, imo, as finding an old painting at a flea market or something similar but not knowing, once you discovered a popular artist might have painted it, whether it is authentic or not so you send it in to a well known authenticator to find out for sure.

I am not an art collector so I don't know the ins and outs of those types of authenticators, but I am pretty sure, depending on who you send it to, that you can pretty much guarantee that whatever they say will likely stick and be the

Dale,
You’re being naive. There is more forgery in the art world than in almost all antiques. Multi million paintings shown to have been painted years after the artist died. Google search it if you have any questions.

It’s not that I don’t feel bad for some of the guys on this board and the current t206 scandal. I do. Blindly trusting authenticators and auctioneers is dumb. As others have eluded to, specifically the Baker t206, if you can’t see there’s an issue with that than I don’t know what else to say. Many of those cards look like they were signed yesterday or in the same light flowing hand and signed with the same pen. In fact they probably were. I know it’s easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but many of those clearly have issues.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I will also add that I buy and sell autos and I make mistakes myself. Sometimes I disagree with authenticators and it’s frustrating because items that don’t pass are tough to sell. If I realize I made a mistake I blame myself for not doing more research, not someone for giving me their opinion.