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#1
12-31-2018, 05:38 PM
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Autographs
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#2
12-31-2018, 05:45 PM
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I had always thought that some day after the mortgage was set and retirement $ was in good shape, that I would really splurge and get a signed Ruth Goudey. PSA/JSA.
I'm a year or so away from being able to do that. I've changed my mind 
__________________
My wantlist http://www.oldbaseball.com/wantlists...tag=bdonaldson Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
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#3
12-31-2018, 05:50 PM
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Wasnt there a fake Magie portrait posted in a psa 5 holder? Money wise, it probably beats all the signed t206s in the whole thread added up. Funny that the title is "too many to list". What about the fake missing color, ghosts, and scraps, trimmed high grade t206s, etc, etc. Ad nauseam.
These seem light years easier to fake. I'll stick to buying autos. Sell now while you can!
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors
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#4
12-31-2018, 06:37 PM
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Bob....
I'm in complete agreement with you....
Ted....I hear you, but it would be 1000 % easier to just sign a piece instead of cooking up a scrap or ghost....how could you add cardboard without extensive work??? or create ghosts and try to wash out color ect.....all undertakings that would require extensive work for the profit involved....some almost insane to do(like adding extra borders ect) also, magie and doyle have been tried to be faked, but they are super focused on now, and can be fairly easy to detect(black lights, 20x loupes).....I'm sure there is a possibility, but no way like the ease of signing an auto....I hate to say it, but I'm sure many kids could do a great job at it  trimming cards and getting them holdered also occurs, but prob these above mentioned things- fake doyle, magies, creating scraps ect would be much more difficult or take some kind of advanced skill to try to pull it off.....I'm sure there are some that have probably slipped by, but I'm going to venture not like the scale of a potential autograph deceptions... too easy to pick up a pen or sharpie and practice...thousands could probably even do a great job.... unfortunately, no real 100% way to tell with autos....unless you got it yourself or have some kind of provenance, family, photos ect.....and even then the piece could be swapped out.... unfortunately, this scammer with the t206 signing counterfeit sham shed light on the ugly proverbial elephant in the room....and has brought the skeptical perception now on autos which sucks! if I was going to get a legit auto, I would want a check or legal document or a photo to accompany/be the piece for added value/confirmation of being legit... Ted....do not want to bash auto collecting, I know you have a beautiful auto collection and do not want to take away any of that prestige, or thunder from anyones hard work and money and years they have pumped into it..... just very disappointing that a few money hungry greedy basatrds ruin shit for many of the legit pieces.....now a lot of doubt is raised on all autos, not like it hasn't in the past, but the skepticism is even worse now that tps are fooled a lot more....autos are just too easy to fake just plain sucks!
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#5
12-31-2018, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
How about paper currency? It's only worth as much as collective faith in the monetary system. Speaking of faith, how did the Church become the most powerful force in the modern world for hundreds of years? Most people are prone to believe -- that underpins everything and always will. How many perceived hobby crises do we have to go through before people come to the conclusion that the next crisis is not going to destroy a large segment of the hobby? The answer is many more. Why? There is so much money involved that there will continue to be "bad actors," and those prone to catastrophisizing and generalizing will mistake discoveries of the deeds of those bad actors as a doomsday scenario. It will take a sustained downturn in risky assets where high-end spenders have most of their exposure (e.g., real estate, stocks) for psychology to be shaken, not a net54 thread, despite how good the work on that thread was. Mark Twain could have been talking about vintage card autographs when he wrote "the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated." I don't think he's turning over in his grave about our latest crisis. Last edited by griffon512; 01-01-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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#7
12-31-2018, 06:57 PM
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Autographs.
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#8
12-31-2018, 07:11 PM
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card doctoring
I'm sure can be done.....but I highly doubt as easy as picking up a pen or sharpie and a few hours practice....
try this with a twelve year old......I'm sure 5 out of 10 could prob fake an auto and get it through jsa....within a few hours.... then give the kid a t206 and have him create big bordered ghost image scrap or pull a magie error off with out detection of altering or trim up a nice 8.... aint gonna happen, only with the most advanced crooks maybe, just maybe.... simple logic.....auto are just to easy to fake...by just about anyone....sucks but true!!! mantle and babe, I hate to say, prob 30 % or more are prob fakes(just an arbitrary number).... to each his own definitely.....but I cant see dumping 30k or more on a cobb auto that may have a 50/50 shot at actually being legit... make sense???? too easy to do....for so many people, cost nothing(pen ink) an a 12 year old could do it... scary shit
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#9
12-31-2018, 07:19 PM
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btw....
the t206 counterfeiter is so stupid, he/she purchased the cards from ebay!
DUH! eventually, someone would catch on......person doesn't seem too smart....just another douchebag a - hole with a pen that was their high tech gear 
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#10
12-31-2018, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by griffon512; 12-31-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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#11
12-31-2018, 07:56 PM
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James....
completely agree....if you have cash to literally to burn its not much of a concern....a rough 70 % shot at it being legit is good enough for them
I could see idiots trying to fake Cobbs....a few minutes and BAM! a 30 k card.... lets do a joe jax while they are at it! he probably signed almost nothing cause he couldn't write.... but maybe ray liotta can do it!
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#12
12-31-2018, 08:02 PM
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As someone who was a mason for many years it is something that 99.99% of people can't just do without a lot of practice. Those that try have some ugly looking finished product. I can guarantee the average brick layer is not very intelligent even though they are the highest paid trade. Yet they can give you a beautiful house or fireplace because they know how. Same with card doctoring it is not hard once you know how.
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#13
12-31-2018, 09:55 PM
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Ben....
i agree also, a card could be doctored also, but what to doctor???
a corner?? a wrinkle?? soak a card??? I would imagine it would be hard to create national on joe doyle...... maybe trying to doctor magie, but that is difficult im sure.... most of my scrap left are impossible to forge, especially the fat bordered grossly big bordered , weird cuts, the yellow browns ect...the whole card would have to be created and the ones I have are legit... so I'm not too sure how , at least, t206 can be altered more??? maybe trimmed cards....but I'm sure its not even close to the scale of forged autos... bats, balls, index cards, 8 X 10's, anything signed, to me, is questionable unless there is provenance.... obviously, card doctoring can be done, and I am sure it is, but it is not , I'm sure, as prevelant in comparison to autos.... autos are just too easy to forge.... take a magee, try to "doctor" the e into an i and try to get it into a tpa....I'm sure they would detect it....there probably not too many people on the planet could pull it off, and if they did/could, it would be beyond skill... so I'm not sure what else could be doctored???? even the fake rare backs were caught....????? the profit margin isn't there on trying to fake/forge other cards....how many fake magies do you think a forger is going to get through??? 1 maybe if the stars aligned and the graders were sleeping... I'm just saying, to go to that extent to try to forge big cards or try to replicate t206 as scrap is highly unlikely....almost slim to none... show some examples??? not many to be found.... on the other hand, the surface , I'm sure, is just scraped!! this is the tip of the iceberg I'm sure.... now tpg can't even be trusted....I can see making a mistake on 1 or 2 but dozens of these???????????? if the t206 forger didn't buy the cards on ebay, no one would have ever figured it out! NOW THAT IS SCARY!!!!!! how many other cards were bought at shows, the forgers just signed the item in the bathroom, then submits to james spence??? I wonder how many cobbs or mantles were cooked up while the forger sat on the toilet at a card show??? dropping # 2's and laughing his/her ass off as they submit to jsa for a multi k payoff from a 20 dollar investment? ugh.....when it comes to autos, it's beyond scary....just use logic ....it's common sense on this one.... this has happened over many years within the hobby with autos.... I believe , the future autos with concrete evidence (photos, testimonials of witnesses, provenance) will be highly prized.... so, lesson learned....if you are getting something autoed, take a picture and a picture of the piece....document it.... I have watched every episode of pawn stars too much
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