God almighty! (Buyers beware)^100

[Peter_Spaeth]

I guess, Ben. Seems like more and more and more of the hobby is moving to the holy trinity of PWCC, PSA, and altered cards.

[swarmee]

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

To me, Beckett is essentially irrelevant at this point. Their values relative to PSA are dropping all the time. Their grading on Star basketball is a joke, if only they weren't the only choice. They don't seem to have a clue what's trimmed, on a broad scale. Etc. So yes, the threads are about them too, but I don't care.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout). And at least with PSA, the buyers have the Grade Guarantee and can get their money back. With BGS, what do they get? Nada. And this is the holy grail modern market that SGC is trying to get a foothold in. Good luck. The only reason they're not exposed is because nobody submits to them for this.

But yes, they are still setting record prices with modern card grading because the buyers don't seem to know the whole story yet.

John how many people do you think PSA is really going to refund here? The guaranty is only good if PSA admits the card is bad. PSA is still claiming the Wagner is good, what does that tell you.

[swarmee]

Has PSA actually regraded/reviewed the "8" Wagner, or are you bloviating? I believe it has been reholdered, but if the owner didn't want the grade changed, then PSA has done what they were asked to do.
It would be hard to value that card in an AUTH ALTERED holder because it is still the most famous Wagner copy and has it's own provenance that includes the Great One, so it would be difficult to find out the difference that PSA should be liable for. However, I agree with you, they should recall that card and do the job.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Has PSA actually regraded/reviewed the "8" Wagner, or are you bloviating? I believe it has been reholdered, but if the owner didn't want the grade changed, then PSA has done what they were asked to do.
It would be hard to value that card in an AUTH ALTERED holder because it is still the most famous Wagner copy and has it's own provenance that includes the Great One, so it would be difficult to find out the difference that PSA should be liable for. However, I agree with you, they should recall that card and do the job.

After Mastro admitted trimming it, David Hall at one of the PSA functions specifically reaffirmed that he had personally seen the card and it was good and Mastro should not be believed, as I understand it. I recall something similar happened when in the book "The Card" Bill Hughes, who graded it for PSA, said they knew it was trimmed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ite...ntry-1.1632308

[tschock]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Again, half of these cards were graded by BGS (check the other threads all over blowout).

Is that your 'guess' or did you actually count them? I didn't check blowout, but the count I got from the SCR piece was:
PSA - 38
Beckett - 21 (ALL Beckett, whether BGS or BVG)
Hardly half. More like 1/3 Beckett and 2/3 PSA.

Does Blowout paint a different picture to relative percentages? Or is this through PSA-tinted glasses? FWIW, I have no skin in the game either way (beyond how it affects the industry as a whole), but let's not try to sugar coat PSA's lack of ability to sniff these out either.

[swarmee]

I didn't do the math, but this latest round has been almost all PSA. Both deserve heavy criticism, and there is concern the current PWCC 52 Mantle PSA 4.5 may have been pressed as well that didn't get detected.
BGS and SGC usually get the cover in these threads and PSA takes all the bashing. Just trying to show it's not a one horse show.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I didn't do the math, but this latest round has been almost all PSA. Both deserve heavy criticism, and there is concern the current PWCC 52 Mantle PSA 4.5 may have been pressed as well that didn't get detected.
BGS and SGC usually get the cover in these threads and PSA takes all the bashing. Just trying to show it's not a one horse show.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614

[bigfanNY]

I saw the comment on junior graders but when you are going to give a card worth this kind of money a 10 I think ANY TPG should cover all the basics. Clearly all that needed to happen to stop this was to measure the cards. Not exactly crime lab level scrutiny.
I personally do not spend thousands of dollars on these types of cards, but i do spend hundreds and I will definitely be measuring cards after every purchase.
J

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guess, Ben. Seems like more and more and more of the hobby is moving to the holy trinity of PWCC, PSA, and altered cards.

It seems to me that PWCC is getting more and more culpable. There was a card in last month's auction basically advertising it was ready to be trimmed. The description was.....

Fantastic Nicklaus rookie card on the market this month. A some what over-sized copy which boasts sharp corners, strong card stock and beautiful surfaces. A couple points better centered and this would grade higher. One of nearly 15,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 4th Auction of 2019. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. The PWCC Vault is now live! Open a PWCC Vault account and receive a custom Vault shipping address. Purchases shipped to the Vault receive free shipping and reflect Oregon's 0% sales tax rate

If you see a 1971 Nicklaus PSA 10 come up soon, you'll know where it came from.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Arazi4442

It seems to me that PWCC is getting more and more culpable. There was a card in last month's auction basically advertising it was ready to be trimmed. The description was.....

Fantastic Nicklaus rookie card on the market this month. A some what over-sized copy which boasts sharp corners, strong card stock and beautiful surfaces. A couple points better centered and this would grade higher. One of nearly 15,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 4th Auction of 2019. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. The PWCC Vault is now live! Open a PWCC Vault account and receive a custom Vault shipping address. Purchases shipped to the Vault receive free shipping and reflect Oregon's 0% sales tax rate

If you see a 1971 Nicklaus PSA 10 come up soon, you'll know where it came from.

My far bigger concern, and it applies to all major ebay sellers who take consignments and auction houses, is that they (or most of them) are outlets for card doctors. I get it -- the TPG gives them cover etc. etc. -- but it's very troubling to me nonetheless. If anyone thinks all this high end inventory is just coming from collectors, with due respect, you're naïve.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My far bigger concern, and it applies to all major ebay sellers who take consignments and auction houses, is that they (or most of them) are outlets for card doctors. I get it -- the TPG gives them cover etc. etc. -- but it's very troubling to me nonetheless. If anyone thinks all this high end inventory is just coming from collectors, with due respect, you're naïve.

I know you're probably right and that is sad.

I knew all my cards with razor sharp corners were trimmed, now I'm sure of it.

Would PWCC refer you to a good card Doctor after purchase you think?

[rjackson44]

this will never end