Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What I don't get is that it already was sheet cut, right? It was never issued in a pack. So even if Mastro didn't trim it it's still an AUTH? PS I've seen those Alan Ray photos I thought they were pretty grainy but maybe they can be enhanced, but again, if it's sheet cut already..

So if someone has uncut N, T, E and/or R sheets that if cut could produce "10s" of vintage superstars, is because of that a person a multi-millionaire? I'm doubtful.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

So if someone has uncut N, T, E and/or R sheets that if cut could produce "10s" of vintage superstars, is because of that a person a multi-millionaire? I'm doubtful.

I don't follow, sorry. My point, I think, is that the bigger problem with the card is not that it's trimmed but that it's sheet cut to begin with so never could have graded properly. Everyone focuses on the trimming though.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't follow, sorry. My point, I think, is that the bigger problem with the card is not that it's trimmed but that it's sheet cut to begin with so never could have graded properly. Everyone focuses on the trimming though.

It was post-issue sheet cut, believed to be in the 1980's. There are other known cards cut from that same sheet with similar cut and coloration. Therefore to some because it was recently sheet cut, the fact that the initial cutting did not do it perfectly means that a subsequent cutting should not cause an "A" grade. So by that line of reasoning, sheet-cut cards can potentially receive unqualified "10" grades.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

It was post-issue sheet cut, believed to be in the 1980's. There are other known cards cut from that same sheet with similar cut and coloration. Therefore to some because it was recently sheet cut, the fact that the initial cutting did not do it perfectly means that a subsequent cutting should not cause an "A" grade. So by that line of reasoning, sheet-cut cards can potentially receive unqualified "10" grades.

If you walked into PSA with a card and said this was cut from a sheet in the 1980s, they wouldn't grade it, would they? I thought Beckett caught lots of grief for doing that for certain sheet cutters who couldn't get the cards past PSA.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you walked into PSA with a card and said this was cut from a sheet in the 1980s, they wouldn't grade it, would they?

To my knowledge they would not. Welcome to the absurdity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

To my knowledge they would not. Welcome to the absurdity.

So my point stands, PSA screwed up for two reasons, the first of which (that the card was sheet cut) was a non-starter. The trim by Mastro is really a secondary issue. Had he not trimmed it, it still was not gradable.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So my point stands, PSA screwed up for two reasons, the first of which (that the card was sheet cut) was a non-starter. The trim by Mastro is really a secondary issue. Had he not trimmed it, it still was not gradable.

Yes, and yes. And to go further, the Plank known to be cut from same sheet at the same time the Wagner was initially cut is graded "A". Welcome to the real world of this hobby.