Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

One thing the grading companies could do to help in terms of the "provenance" argument is to start keeping / making available more detailed notes, at least on cards over a certain value. When was the card graded? Was it a raw submit or a crossover? How many times has it been reholdered? At least for the super high-end pieces, graders notes would be a lot more transparent too. What were the overall impressions of the card? Why were the corners a 5 and not a 6? Why did the card get a .5 bump? What is the graders interpretation of centering in comparison to the standard?

All of this would give tremendous more insight into the process. And the position of the TPG's as long as there have been TPG's (with the noted exception of Beckett doing sub-grades, which they no longer do on vintage) is that well, this is our opinion - but we are only going to give you a number and not tell you why this is our opinion. Which of course leads to frustration and hot heads later when a card that looks like a 5 all day long is a 3, and when a card that looks otherwise like a 7 is a 5. I guess the grading companies think that this would open them up to liability - in the inevitable case that the graders notes for a particular card were then later found not to match the stated standards / description of the grade?

The earlier post about provenance rings true though. For expensive works of art offered for sale, there can be a virtual accompanying book on the provenance of the piece. I agree that it certainly would not hurt to start thinking more in those terms for cards. At least for the iconic pieces of the hobby...I'm not sure I want to see detailed provenance for every '89 UD Griffey graded Mint 9...

Who's going to pay for the time and resources involved?

[ullmandds]

Personally...I agree with the idea that there should be a higher standard for assuring a card has been unaltered...similar to what David and Scott did with my no name t206 a few years ago.

-min size requirements
-"quality" of edges/corners/color/sheen of trimmed edge vs untrimmed edge.
-fiber appearance/quality where trim was done
-added corners should be easy to detect
-added color should be easy to detect
-provenance

Obviously PSA is unable to detect most alterations...and just because of this it shouldn't be accepted in the hobby that this is ok!

Whether or not the hobby changes to accept alterations/restorations/"conservations" as ok...THERE NEEDS TO BE DISCLOSURE!!!!!!!

WITH NO DISCLOSURE THIS IS NOT OK!!!!!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who's going to pay for the time and resources involved?

Likely nobody, unless there is a market for it. Which just guessing based on roaring vintage card sales and the small number of folks here and I'm assuming over on Blowout that actually care about this type of thing - probably doesn't really exist. In that case it's just an idea that will never happen and it will still be caveat emptor, up to truly discerning collectors - whether or not they are happy with the card they bought or not.