I guess this is goodbye

[1952boyntoncollector]

Can always just agree he can put the poll up again in 30 days or an agreed time period.

That way the mob mentality excuse doesnt appear to be a fake excuse as it does appear you are fine with the poll, just not being put up right now

You are looking for a 'cooling off' period as it were but not refusing him putting up the poll forever...

[Leon]

This is correct. And I very much believe a poll won't be needed by the end of this month or sooner.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Can always just agree he can put the poll up again in 30 days or an agreed time period.

That way the mob mentality excuse doesnt appear to be a fake excuse as it does appear you are fine with the poll, just not being put up right now

You are looking for a 'cooling off' period as it were but not refusing him putting up the poll forever...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is correct. And I very much believe a poll won't be needed by the end of this month or sooner.

However, in a month if T206 man wants to have his poll, you are fine with it.

Call me Boynton problem solver..

[Leon]

Yeap.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

However, in a month if T206 man wants to have his poll, you are fine with it.

Call me Boynton problem solver..

[Snapolit1]

I don't know what the poll was, but I trust Leon's judgment that it wasn't adding a whole lot what has already been fleshed out here in great (and much necessary) detail. Great work by many.

I could imagine polls popping up like "Who deserves to go to jail first" kind of a thing. Gimmicky and maybe worth a small chuckle but not really moving the ball forward.

[frankbmd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne2yFQPYYmU

For those of you that cannot stomach the video.....

Chalk on the sidewalk
Writin' on the wall
Everybody knows it
I love Paul
Tall Paul, Tall Paul
Tall Paul, he's-a my all

Chalk on the sidewalk
'nitials on a tree
Ev'rybody knows it
Paul loves me
(Tall Paul) With the king-size arms
(Tall Paul) With the king-size charms
(Tall Paul) With the king-size kiss
He's my all!!
Tall Paul is my love,
Tall Paul is my dream

[vintagetoppsguy]

I really don't see what the big deal is. Is a banner ad really going to change anybody's opinion about PWCC at this point? It's advertising dollars for this site that keep it running. I see banner ads from businesses that I've made it a point not to do business with, but I don't complain about it.

[drcy]

If this doesn't convince you to stay, then I don't know what will

Yazoo-- Don't Go

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure that even without a poll Leon understands how many of us feel on this topic. A number of us have posted. I do hope he will change his mind at some point and follow where PSA and even the allegedly conspiratorial VCP have gone by disassociating themselves.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sure that even without a poll Leon understands how many of us feel on this topic. A number of us have posted. I do hope he will change his mind at some point and follow where PSA and even the allegedly conspiratorial VCP have gone by disassociating themselves.

PWCC ad back on VCP.

[barrysloate]

I also want to wish Paul well and hope he takes a short break and then returns. His posts were always literate and well thought out.

I took a break for a couple of years, and when I returned I was welcomed back with a collective yawn. But the point is it's okay to return.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I also want to wish Paul well and hope he takes a short break and then returns. His posts were always literate and well thought out.

I took a break for a couple of years, and when I returned I was welcomed back with a collective yawn. But the point is it's okay to return.

You will always be welcome here. I think probably one person yawned, then the rest followed suit, because we all know that yawning is contagious.

Brian

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

You will always be welcome here. I think probably one person yawned, then the rest followed suit, because we all know that yawning is contagious.

Brian

Thanks Brian. Actually I received a lot of nice responses on my return, but I tend to be self-deprecating.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile

PWCC ad back on VCP.

No cojones in this industry. A check can buy you anyone.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No cojones in this industry. A check can buy you anyone.

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

Well said!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Well said!!

Agreed

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

Been thinking this, but couldn't put it into words as well as you have. Very well said, and I agree with every word.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

You nailed it. I completely agree.

[Bpm0014]

Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

So so so spot on! This great forum is free for us because of the sponsors, whether we agree with them or not. Very well said!

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

Please..... Did I say taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to me? What I said was, Leon owns his site, so he gets to make the call, period.

I primarily collect GU stuff. There used to be a great website called gameuseduniverse. I loved it over there. They had a bunch of really great members who were very helpful to me, like Mike Specht, Dave Meidema, and Bud Hillerich (who told me my GU Terry Felton bat was one of only 4 made for him.) I got to know Chris Cavalier and that's where I met Dave Grob and others. Really great group of people.

Well, Chris sold the site to Ken Goldin of Goldin Auctions, and right away the "Goldin Rule" was instituted. It said that criticism of items listed in Goldin Auctions was not permitted - and questions needed to be sent to Ken directly, and privately. As I watched that rule be enforced several times, I started to become uncomfortable with what I was seeing, and found net54 as an alternative site.

Some of you may remember the Babe Ruth catchers glove incident a few years ago. Goldin was auctioning a glove that was thought to have been used by Ruth as a teenager at his industrial school. Some members here pointed out differences between pictures of Ruth with his glove, and the glove being auctioned. Then, some of those who were raising questions were apparently contacted by an attorney, either issuing, or threatening, a cease and desist notice.

For me, that was it. Free speech was the norm over here, and over at gameuseduniverse, not so much. I stopped going over there.

On April 23 of this year, I received an email from Chris Cavalier, which begins: "I hope this email finds you doing well. Recently, there were a few people who tried to reach me through the Game Used Universe site. As the site's founder, I am sure it seemed logical to try to reach me through the GUU. Unfortunately, my account there has been banned by the site's new owner and I am no longer able to post there or respond to anyone trying to message me through the site."

Chris went on to provide his email address at Heritage, where he is now a Consignment Director. I wish him the best and consider him to be one of the many "good guys" who used to be at that site. Out of curiosity, I checked out GUU (had problems logging in as I'd forgotten my password.) It looks like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

So........ When I see people jumping all over Leon because he didn't instantly ban one of his advertisers over this recently breaking scandal, and then when I see people who spend quite a lot of time enjoying this site (for free) imply Leon has no "cojones" and that he can be "bought," I think it is unfair to the extreme.

Running this website costs money, and maintaining civility among all of us must be rather challenging at times. I agree with a previous poster that Leon manages this site, and keeps us all in line, in a very calm and fair way. For example, the PWCC ad issue is now resolved, and as it turns out, Leon't patient approach, to let things play out, was better than some sort of knee-jerk reaction some here advocated.

What I don't want is for the aggravation Leon has to put up with to become so great that he starts looking for his own "Goldin Parachute." Imagine if he sold this site to another auction house, or even PSA (or for that matter, PWCC.) New rules might be instituted, the current moderators would quit as they wouldn't be able to stomach those new rules, and I would have to find another hobby website, rather than watch this site degenerate the way of GUU.

Bottom line is this: I am comfortable here. If at some point I become uncomfortable, I will simply leave. But I will not try to tell Leon how to run his site, and I certainly will not insult him. If you interpret that as me having no principles, so be it.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

Honestly, this whole thing is disingenuous. If you truly felt that PWCC advertising on this forum meant this forum was "associated" with PWCC, you would leave. Anyone who is a member of a PWCC-sponsored forum is associated with PWCC, right? Or is it just people who take their money? If so, this isn't about morals or principles, this is about money.

So long as Leon isn't stifling critical conversation of sponsors (which he CLEARLY isn't), there is no "issue of morals and integrity." What's the problem?