What I Don't Understand about Baseball Card Economics

barrysloate · #1 06-10-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...or-155-million

Steve Wynn Picasso. I am sure many are aware or have read about this.

Quote from the article

"The restoration seems to be factored into the price," Beverly Schreiber Jacoby, valuation specialist and president of New York-based BSJ Fine Art, told Bloomberg. "If you didn't know that it has been damaged, you would not see it. It's superbly restored."

If a painting can be fixed without leaving a trail I believe cards can too.

If we reach the point that a baseball card can be restored with such skill that an alteration cannot be detected, then we should all agree that third party grading will become obsolete.

We can then accept that any baseball card that looks Mint is Mint. It won't matter if it was restored, because nobody will know the difference. Maybe this will be the future look of the hobby.

Dpeck100 · #2 06-10-2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If we reach the point that a baseball card can be restored with such skill that an alteration cannot be detected, then we should all agree that third party grading will become obsolete.

We can then accept that any baseball card that looks Mint is Mint. It won't matter if it was restored, because nobody will know the difference. Maybe this will be the future look of the hobby.

The reason I always point to the ego driven nature of high grade cards is in my view that is what drives the spread. If you can solve for a humans desire to "have the best" or have something someone else can't then it will change. I just think that human behavior is pretty well established and grading differentiates what started out as very similar items.

There is a big difference between a PSA 8 and a PSA 10. There are much smaller differences between a 9 and a 10. Probably the most liquid card that exists is the 86 Fleer Michael Jordan and under no circumstances will you ever see a card that is an 8 that looks as good as a 10. You easily could see one that is a 9 that does and I am sure some of the 10's started out as a 9. That said there are far too many collectors that get a thrill out of saying they have a 10. This isn't going to change.

steve B · #3 06-10-2019, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The reason I always point to the ego driven nature of high grade cards is in my view that is what drives the spread. If you can solve for a humans desire to "have the best" or have something someone else can't then it will change. I just think that human behavior is pretty well established and grading differentiates what started out as very similar items.

There is a big difference between a PSA 8 and a PSA 10. There are much smaller differences between a 9 and a 10. Probably the most liquid card that exists is the 86 Fleer Michael Jordan and under no circumstances will you ever see a card that is an 8 that looks as good as a 10. You easily could see one that is a 9 that does and I am sure some of the 10's started out as a 9. That said there are far too many collectors that get a thrill out of saying they have a 10. This isn't going to change.

This is pretty much it. And exactly what the registry capitalizes on.

And I must say that I'm not immune. I initially sent cards out for grading so they'd be easier to sell someday. (Maybe a good decision, maybe not... )
Along the way I ended up with a couple that are either the highest graded, or really close. I was a bit surprised that it mattered to me once I was there.

Exhibitman · #4 06-10-2019, 02:16 PM

As long as there are people out there who will pay a multiple for each grade increment, we have the existing economic model. That's why this scandal won't have an impact broadly across the hobby but will have a deep impact : people who collect lesser condition cards, collect on a budget, etc., have no skin in this game.

drcy · #5 06-10-2019, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As long as there are people out there who will pay a multiple for each grade increment, we have the existing economic model. That's why this scandal won't have an impact broadly across the hobby but will have a deep impact : people who collect lesser condition cards, collect on a budget, etc., have no skin in this game.

I agree. I've often considered the exorbitant prices paid for numbers on a label to be a different hobby. A world outside of my collecting world.

Mdmtx · #6 06-10-2019, 02:45 PM

I actually believe the trimming/alterations could be a major factor in the price escalation. Suppose the trimmer is buying a psa 4 card that he is pretty confidant that he can make a psa 6, will he care what VCP says the value of the 4 is? I doubt it. It becomes a matter of his business model that he win that particular card. I will admit I haven�t looked to see how the prices paid for the pre-altered cards compared to the then market price of the card. My gut tells me they purchased for whatever it took within reason.

Mark

Rhotchkiss · #7 06-10-2019, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I actually believe the trimming/alterations could be a major factor in the price escalation. Suppose the trimmer is buying a psa 4 card that he is pretty confidant that he can make a psa 6, will he care what VCP says the value of the 4 is? I doubt it. It becomes a matter of his business model that he win that particular card. I will admit I haven�t looked to see how the prices paid for the pre-altered cards compared to the then market price of the card. My gut tells me they purchased for whatever it took within reason.

Mark

Mark, this is a very interesting point, namely that card doctors are pushing prices bc they are buying cards at high prices thinking they can crack, alter, submit and achieve higher grades which will bring even still higher prices.

For example,
Dr. A sees a great looking 33 Goudey Ruth in a PSA 4 flip. According to VCP, the card is worth approximately $Y. Dr. A feels he could take that PSA 4, crack it, remove a few stains and straighten up one border and get a PSA 6-7, which will make the card worth 4 x $Y. So, Dr. A is willing to 1.5 x VCP pricing on the PSA 4, thereby forever changing the value of a PSA 4 Goudey Ruth.

I am sure this happens. Mark, thanks for providing an angle I have not thought of -- nice to read something new.

Ryan

drcy · #8 06-10-2019, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If we reach the point that a baseball card can be restored with such skill that an alteration cannot be detected, then we should all agree that third party grading will become obsolete.

We can then accept that any baseball card that looks Mint is Mint. It won't matter if it was restored, because nobody will know the difference. Maybe this will be the future look of the hobby.

Maybe but I think there will be a substantial difference in pricing. Unlike natural difference in grade, I don't think in the future someone, even someone with lots of money, will pay an extra $500,000 because one card had a very slightly better alteration than another altered card. It's one thing to pay that difference for what is perceived to be natural if very slight difference, but another to pay that difference knowing that the difference is because someone was just slightly better at using a paper cutter.

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