What I Don't Understand about Baseball Card Economics

Exhibitman · #1 06-10-2019, 02:16 PM

As long as there are people out there who will pay a multiple for each grade increment, we have the existing economic model. That's why this scandal won't have an impact broadly across the hobby but will have a deep impact : people who collect lesser condition cards, collect on a budget, etc., have no skin in this game.

drcy · #2 06-10-2019, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As long as there are people out there who will pay a multiple for each grade increment, we have the existing economic model. That's why this scandal won't have an impact broadly across the hobby but will have a deep impact : people who collect lesser condition cards, collect on a budget, etc., have no skin in this game.

I agree. I've often considered the exorbitant prices paid for numbers on a label to be a different hobby. A world outside of my collecting world.

Mdmtx · #3 06-10-2019, 02:45 PM

I actually believe the trimming/alterations could be a major factor in the price escalation. Suppose the trimmer is buying a psa 4 card that he is pretty confidant that he can make a psa 6, will he care what VCP says the value of the 4 is? I doubt it. It becomes a matter of his business model that he win that particular card. I will admit I haven�t looked to see how the prices paid for the pre-altered cards compared to the then market price of the card. My gut tells me they purchased for whatever it took within reason.

Mark

Rhotchkiss · #4 06-10-2019, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I actually believe the trimming/alterations could be a major factor in the price escalation. Suppose the trimmer is buying a psa 4 card that he is pretty confidant that he can make a psa 6, will he care what VCP says the value of the 4 is? I doubt it. It becomes a matter of his business model that he win that particular card. I will admit I haven�t looked to see how the prices paid for the pre-altered cards compared to the then market price of the card. My gut tells me they purchased for whatever it took within reason.

Mark

Mark, this is a very interesting point, namely that card doctors are pushing prices bc they are buying cards at high prices thinking they can crack, alter, submit and achieve higher grades which will bring even still higher prices.

For example,
Dr. A sees a great looking 33 Goudey Ruth in a PSA 4 flip. According to VCP, the card is worth approximately $Y. Dr. A feels he could take that PSA 4, crack it, remove a few stains and straighten up one border and get a PSA 6-7, which will make the card worth 4 x $Y. So, Dr. A is willing to 1.5 x VCP pricing on the PSA 4, thereby forever changing the value of a PSA 4 Goudey Ruth.

I am sure this happens. Mark, thanks for providing an angle I have not thought of -- nice to read something new.

Ryan

Peter_Spaeth · #5 06-10-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Mark, this is a very interesting point, namely that card doctors are pushing prices bc they are buying cards at high prices thinking they can crack, alter, submit and achieve higher grades which will bring even still higher prices.

For example,
Dr. A sees a great looking 33 Goudey Ruth in a PSA 4 flip. According to VCP, the card is worth approximately $Y. Dr. A feels he could take that PSA 4, crack it, remove a few stains and straighten up one border and get a PSA 6-7, which will make the card worth 4 x $Y. So, Dr. A is willing to 1.5 x VCP pricing on the PSA 4, thereby forever changing the value of a PSA 4 Goudey Ruth.

I am sure this happens. Mark, thanks for providing an angle I have not thought of -- nice to read something new.

Ryan

We've discussed this before in explaining some insane prices for cards that look great for the grade with only a trivial flaw. I think clearly you have some card doctor competition for such cards.

Rhotchkiss · #6 06-10-2019, 03:16 PM

Ok, maybe its not a new thought -- to me, in the moment, it was -- but still a great point. Namely, card doctors do all sorts of damage -- direct and collateral. But, at the same time, if you have a very pretty card with a few minor flaws, throw it in a PWCC auction (or really any AH) and hope that a Dr. will pay up to turn your PSA 4 into a PSA 7.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 06-10-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ok, maybe its not a new thought -- to me, in the moment, it was -- but still a great point. Namely, card doctors do all sorts of damage -- direct and collateral. But, at the same time, if you have a very pretty card with a few minor flaws, throw it in a PWCC auction (or really any AH) and hope that a Dr. will pay up to turn your PSA 4 into a PSA 7.

And then consign it back to you where you can put a nice sticker on it, write some garbage description, and sell for a new world record. And if it's centered OMG.

drcy · #8 06-10-2019, 03:14 PM

If all cards are altered, it also makes one wonder how important the TPA grades will be. If two cards are largely alike and both known to be altered, will it make such a big difference it is graded a 9 or 10. The price valuations may change significantly.

Of course, then, if the cards are altered, they are all "AUTH" the traditional 1-10 grades won't apply.

I'm no lawyer, but it makes me wonder how liable people can be for the general artificial prices across the board in the hobby. I.e. if undiagnosed altered cards, shilling and other illegal trickery inflated prices across the board, how legally responsible those people can be held for contributing to the general fall in prices not just the specific instances the directly participated in. Just a ponderment.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
T206 whitey alperman, please help me understand the psa pop. On this card!	CMIZ5290	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	8	10-09-2010 06:54 PM
Cards, Economics & Sci-fi	Collect Equity	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	12	05-31-2010 11:02 PM
I don't understand graded card pricing	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	11	10-08-2008 10:33 PM
Economics of Grading	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	6	09-16-2007 08:28 AM
Sound economics	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	1	11-30-2002 01:42 PM