1914 CJ Joe Jackson PSA 2 to SGC 5

Peter_Spaeth · #1 06-23-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I assume that at the National there will be more than a few collectors who will get into verbal confrontations with PSA. Should be interesting. Somebody needs to film it.

I am sure they will be fully prepared to spin this as a very limited and contained problem.

barrysloate · #2 06-23-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sure they will be fully prepared to spin this as a very limited and contained problem.

Agreed. But that will only get the people on the other side of the table angrier, louder, and more vocal. Like I said, should get interesting.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-23-2019, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Agreed. But that will only get the people on the other side of the table angrier, louder, and more vocal. Like I said, should get interesting.

They will just poof any protesters from the Set Registry shindig I am sure, and higher ups will be nowhere near the table at the show.

darwinbulldog · #4 06-23-2019, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sure they will be fully prepared to spin this as a very limited and contained problem.

It's contained alright. In 10,000 slabs.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 06-23-2019, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

It's contained alright. In 10,000 slabs.

I wish it was only that many.

darwinbulldog · #6 06-23-2019, 10:34 AM

The population of slabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and (reasonably) well-doctored cards.

The population of unslabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and poorly doctored cards.

So it seems, as long as you're at least as good at detecting alterations as the graders are, as seems to apply to an increasingly large proportion of Net54 members, that it's safer to buy raw since the altered ones will be fairly obvious.

Bicem · #7 06-23-2019, 11:11 AM

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

darwinbulldog · #8 06-23-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

This is a good and relatively long-term solution. Maybe 25 years from now the counterfeits will be indistinguishable from the originals, but in the meantime we can still have fun.

Scott L. · #9 06-23-2019, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

I love this idea. Will probably never happen but I for one would be fully on board.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 06-23-2019, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott L.

I love this idea. Will probably never happen but I for one would be fully on board.

I think David Hall rightly understood on day 1 the market potential for grading not just authenticating. And ironically, they may be better at grading than authenticating at this point.

Bicem · #11 06-23-2019, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think David Hall rightly understood on day 1 the market potential for grading not just authenticating. And ironically, they may be better at grading than authenticating at this point.

Even if just assigning an Authentic or not opinion without regard to alteration? At least this way people can be more reassured of not buying reprints.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #12 06-23-2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

They're no dummies though. They have set up their products for obsolescence and subsequent resubmissions any number of times. If I were a betting man I would bet the announcement of photo grading isn't that far in the future.

MVSNYC · #13 06-23-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

Jeff, not a bad idea...but I'd submit to you, how about these levels...

-Authentic (unaltered)
-Authentic (altered)
-Rejected (fake)

Scott L. · #14 06-23-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Jeff, not a bad idea...but I'd submit to you, how about these levels...

-Authentic (unaltered)
-Authentic (altered)
-Rejected (fake)

Michael I was thinking the same thing with the Auth alt/unalt but how could we trust them to be able to discern that with all that�s going on.

ullmandds · #15 06-23-2019, 08:44 PM

i agree I like the 3 possibilities...but I also have little faith that they can determine.

topcat61 · #16 06-24-2019, 11:41 AM

Well, if this card was bleached, a simple test under a black light will be able to pick it up. If that's the case, the grading company (SGC) and or both are in trouble. If I was the buyer, I'd contact a lawyer and the FBI.

brianp-beme · #17 06-23-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

The population of slabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and (reasonably) well-doctored cards.

The population of unslabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and poorly doctored cards.

So it seems, as long as you're at least as good at detecting alterations as the graders are, as seems to apply to an increasingly large proportion of Net54 members, that it's safer to buy raw since the altered ones will be fairly obvious.

Maybe I can sneak some of these past the TPG's. I guess I have been ahead of this grading curve for decades.

Brian

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