Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

Dpeck100 · #1 07-05-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that if you look hard enough and use sophisticated equipment it leaves traces that the typical TPG look might not see.

Peter so what you are saying is good luck detecting it.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 07-05-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Peter so what you are saying is good luck detecting it.

Some of it is obvious, many cleaned cards are blinding white for example and how the hell a TPG missed them is beyond me. Some no doubt are difficult to detect at least with an assembly line grader.

Dpeck100 · #3 07-05-2019, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Some of it is obvious, many cleaned cards are blinding white for example and how the hell a TPG missed them is beyond me. Some no doubt are difficult to detect at least with an assembly line grader.

I have to yield to your expertise on this topic.

If there are ways to clean cards and improve them without a grading company being able to tell than it is impossible to stop it.

I am not certain though that high end buyers are totally in the dark on this issue based on Brent's video. Most wouldn't watch it because they can't stand the guy. I watched the entire video and it appears this "conservation" has taken place to many cards and the way he framed it was it was very well known.

swarmee · #4 07-05-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

If there are ways to clean cards and improve them without a grading company being able to tell than it is impossible to stop it.

I am not certain though that high end buyers are totally in the dark on this issue based on Brent's video. Most wouldn't watch it because they can't stand the guy. I watched the entire video and it appears this "conservation" has taken place to many cards and the way he framed it was it was very well known.

To your first point, then what value does grading have?

To your second, it's not like the video was posted on Brent's website or www.psacard.com for anyone to see it except for people like us who read message boards.

Since you agree that the "alterations" are widespread ("conservation" just being subterfuge), and PSA and other grading companies are INCOMPETENT at their core mission of detecting alterations, where do we go from here? How long until the word actually spreads among the collectors that aren't on message boards and nobody pays PSA/Beckett/SGC thousands of dollars a year (or card) on grading fees because there is no longer a premium awarded for high-grade cards?

Dpeck100 · #5 07-05-2019, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

To your first point, then what value does grading have?

To your second, it's not like the video was posted on Brent's website or www.psacard.com for anyone to see it except for people like us who read message boards.

Since you agree that the "alterations" are widespread ("conservation" just being subterfuge), and PSA and other grading companies are INCOMPETENT at their core mission of detecting alterations, where do we go from here? How long until the word actually spreads among the collectors that aren't on message boards and nobody pays PSA/Beckett/SGC thousands of dollars a year (or card) on grading fees because there is no longer a premium awarded for high-grade cards?

I don't really see the cleaning as incompetence. This board educated me on the concepts of alterations on older cards and it is clear there are techniques that you can't consistently detect.

There are loads of collectors like me who buy raw cards and filter them and send in the best ones. That is not going to stop. Obviously after hearing Ken Kendrick's comments on the Wagner the whales aren't going to just quit buying cards either.

As for grading the idea that it is going to die is ridiculous. This to me sounds like people boycotting Chick-fil-a. Plenty already weren't going there and they don't impact demand and as others drop off new people emerge.

The overwhelming percentage of people who submit cards have no clue how to doctor them. Those are the facts.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 07-05-2019, 09:02 PM

Allegedly altered cards in the new PWCC auction.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304350

swarmee · #7 07-05-2019, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Peter so what you are saying is good luck detecting it.

You know how every single person that tries to get on a commercial airplane in the US goes through a metal detector in the airport?
Does every single card that a grading company inspects go through a similar gate check to detect alterations? If not, why not?

The way I interpreted Peter's statement was that it could be detected, if they really tried.

Dpeck100 · #8 07-05-2019, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

You know how every single person that tries to get on a commercial airplane in the US goes through a metal detector in the airport?
Does every single card that a grading company inspects go through a similar gate check to detect alterations? If not, why not?

The way I interpreted Peter's statement was that it could be detected, if they really tried.

I used to pay $4.75 to get one of my worthless wrestling cards graded and now if I want to only do 50 it is $10 per card plus shipping there and back.

If we got to the point of the current TSA it would price most of us out of the market. I am very cautious on what I submit at the current pricing and so are many others in every genre and demand is still close to 2 million cards a year.

Easier said then done.

swarmee · #9 07-05-2019, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I used to pay $4.75 to get one of my worthless wrestling cards graded and now if I want to only do 50 it is $10 per card plus shipping there and back.

No matter the price point of the grading, PSA is telling you that they're inspecting them properly for authenticity and lack of alterations. They have never claimed they do true authentication work only for higher graded cards.

PSA was alerted to Gary Moser and his friends 15 years ago at the National and asked what they're going to do about it. And they basically answered that they were going to stick their heads in the sand and hope it goes away on its own. That decision has and will continue to bite them in the butt.

The buck stops here.

drcy · #10 07-05-2019, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

The buck stops here.

With you? Very gentlemanly of you.

kateighty · #11 07-05-2019, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

With you? Very gentlemanly of you.

Seriously David? Pretty sure that was a direct jab at my joking tongue in cheek gentlelady comment.

swarmee · #12 07-05-2019, 09:37 PM

kat, I don't think that joke was directed at you. Just that since I used a hundred year old phrase, that he addressed me in a hundred year old way.

Peter_Spaeth · #13 07-05-2019, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

You know how every single person that tries to get on a commercial airplane in the US goes through a metal detector in the airport?
Does every single card that a grading company inspects go through a similar gate check to detect alterations? If not, why not?

The way I interpreted Peter's statement was that it could be detected, if they really tried.

I have been told by people who know much more than I do. I think some of that discussion may be in the thread on the WWG DiMaggio.

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