Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

Peter_Spaeth · #1 11-06-2019, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Any precipitous drop in the market for slabbed cards will be caused by new buyers who have not bought into the fantasy that (in the case of high grade vintage cards) the slab bears any correlation to the true condition of the card. These prospective buyers, who have no stake whether slabbed cards hold their value, will demand to see provenance and/or other corroboration (e.g., a re grade from a company/technique using better methods to weed out alterations) that what they are buying is truly what it is represented to be. And, as has been discussed, even the provenance aspect could be susceptible to manipulation.

IMO the great majority of sophisticated experienced collectors/dealers know that high grade slabbed vintage cards are for the most part not what they are purported to be. And, given this reality, I believe that eventually the truth will come out and be reflected in the market value of such cards.

I don't follow Corey. If the great majority of sophisticated buyers and sellers already know the truth, then by definition the truth is already out and should already be reflected in the market value. No?

benjulmag · #2 11-06-2019, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't follow Corey. If the great majority of sophisticated buyers and sellers already know the truth, then by definition the truth is already out and should already be reflected in the market value. No?

Fair. I should be clearer. To me, the set registry people who buy the slab and are in it for the ego are not what I would characterize as sophisticated collectors. People I regard as sophisticated collectors wouldn't touch a lot of this stuff.

Second, the new buyers I refer to are collectors who have not yet entered the market. Call it the next generation. They would be entering the market at a different point than when current collectors did. Their perspective about what they are buying and the associated risks might be a lot different.

1952boyntoncollector · #3 11-06-2019, 09:34 AM

According to corndog. PWCC is currently selling a re-colored card 1975 Hank Aaron that was prior purchased by Moser etc.. Current bidding is over a $1900+ profit. Im sure its all getting worked out.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...9#post15212859

Johnny630 · #4 11-06-2019, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

According to corndog. PWCC is currently selling a re-colored card 1975 Hank Aaron that was prior purchased by Moser etc.. Current bidding is over a $1900+ profit. Im sure its all getting worked out.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...9#post15212859

It's all Priced In Rest Easy

1952boyntoncollector · #5 11-06-2019, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It's all Priced In Rest Easy

Looks like listing was removed an hour ago. I guess thats the only card in the auction with issues if thats the only card that was removed so we are in luck

Johnny630 · #6 11-06-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Looks like listing was removed an hour ago. I guess thats the only card in the auction with issues if thats the only card that was removed so we are in luck

Nice

WhenItWasAHobby · #7 11-06-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

According to corndog. PWCC is currently selling a re-colored card 1975 Hank Aaron that was prior purchased by Moser etc.. Current bidding is over a $1900+ profit. Im sure its all getting worked out.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...9#post15212859

So is PWCC still taking consignments from Moser? Has PWCC created any safeguards to prevent doctored cards from being sold? Has anything changed?

perezfan · #8 11-06-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

So is PWCC still taking consignments from Moser? Has PWCC created any safeguards to prevent doctored cards from being sold? Has anything changed?

Apparently nothing at all has changed. Sure a few refunds have been issued when undisputable proof is provided. But it's apparently still up to us (the buying public) to spot the altered cards, since the "self-appointed experts" can't even begin to do it.

What a f----d up hobby this has become.

1952boyntoncollector · #9 11-06-2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

So is PWCC still taking consignments from Moser? Has PWCC created any safeguards to prevent doctored cards from being sold? Has anything changed?

I would assume the submitter is not Mosher, as to the type of middleman, who knows

Rhotchkiss · #10 11-06-2019, 04:05 PM

It appears the auction was taken down. Once again, the guys at BODA are total rockstars and heroes of the hobby. I am glad for them bc clearly PSA is wholly inept.

Go BODA! Thanks for all your hard work.

Side note/thought - what if everyone kicked in $50 or $100 each year and we, as a hobby, hired BODA, and some guys trained by BODA, to just troll auctions and listings and out cards that appear to be altered. In other-words, the hobby voluntarily funds a watchdog TPG for the benefit of the hobby. Obviously it needs thought and there are many operational issues, not the least of which is funding, but I, for one, would contribute to that cause.

Johnny630 · #11 11-06-2019, 04:09 PM

How about all pitch in for a large table/both at EVERY MAJOR CARD SHOW ACROSS THE COUNTY TO SET UP WITH A LARGE SCREEN COMPUTER/TV ILLUSTRATING EVERY ALTERED SLABED CARD DISCOVERED BY THE BODA. IN THE FRONT OF THE ROOM ENTRANCE OR BETTER YET RIGHT NEXT TO THE LARGEST TPG IN THE INDUSTY. RUN IT CONSTANTLY THROUGH OUT THE WHOLE HOURS OF THE SHOW

JunkyJoe · #12 11-06-2019, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It appears the auction was taken down. Once again, the guys at BODA are total rockstars and heroes of the hobby. I am glad for them bc clearly PSA is wholly inept.

Go BODA! Thanks for all your hard work.

Side note/thought - what if everyone kicked in $50 or $100 each year and we, as a hobby, hired BODA, and some guys trained by BODA, to just troll auctions and listings and out cards that appear to be altered. In other-words, the hobby voluntarily funds a watchdog TPG for the benefit of the hobby. Obviously it needs thought and there are many operational issues, not the least of which is funding, but I, for one, would contribute to that cause.

I'm all for this. Of course, it would take a lot more than contributions from just the members here. I'm thinking, across the hobby, there are at least a few hundred, maybe a thousand collectors, who'd be willing to pitch in something. Many might only be willing or able to pitch in $50 or $100 per year, while a few high rollers might be willing to pitch in thousands of dollars. I could imagine around $80K to $100K being raised every year, realistically. Maybe even more?

Peter_Spaeth · #13 11-06-2019, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It appears the auction was taken down. Once again, the guys at BODA are total rockstars and heroes of the hobby. I am glad for them bc clearly PSA is wholly inept.

Go BODA! Thanks for all your hard work.

Side note/thought - what if everyone kicked in $50 or $100 each year and we, as a hobby, hired BODA, and some guys trained by BODA, to just troll auctions and listings and out cards that appear to be altered. In other-words, the hobby voluntarily funds a watchdog TPG for the benefit of the hobby. Obviously it needs thought and there are many operational issues, not the least of which is funding, but I, for one, would contribute to that cause.

A number of people probably would contribute. But who's going to organize it? Over the years we've had lots of talk about forming a trade association but it's always someone else's job to actually do it.

WhenItWasAHobby · #14 11-06-2019, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would assume the submitter is not Mosher, as to the type of middleman, who knows

Good point. That's easy to do.

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