Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well we saw Sloan urge people to go to their sellers first, way back when this first broke. That said, I am aware of at least one instance where PSA paid someone whose cards had appreciated the difference between his purchase price (which PWCC refunded) and market value. This is the first I've heard of PSA allegedly expressly disclaiming their guarantee altogether. Too many levels of hearsay for me to take it as gospel.

Now that you mention it, you're correct on the Sloan statement - which is appalling in my opinion, particularly since PSA is still advertising a guarantee on their website:

The PSA Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity
This policy is fundamental to PSA's concept of third-party grading. It ensures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA-graded card as long as the card remains in its tamper-evident holder. PSA also guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA.

https://www.psacard.com/about/whypsa/

and checking their Grading Standards, they still regard these modifications as ungradable:

PSA will not grade cards that bear evidence of trimming, re-coloring, restoration, or any other forms of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity.

https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

So legally, (although I'm not a lawyer) I can't see how they can weasel their way out of this and I'd recommend that all PSA collectors to print out the guarantee and Ungradable Card grading standards for their own protection for future disputes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Meanwhile, as best I can determine, the guarantee that used to appear on S_C's website remains missing in action. I asked about this months ago and was assured they were just tweaking the language and that it would reappear shortly.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Meanwhile, as best I can determine, the guarantee that used to appear on S_C's website remains missing in action. I asked about this months ago and was assured they were just tweaking the language and that it would reappear shortly.

My memory is shot so please correct me if I am wrong. Wasn't SGCs guarantee on cards that they would regrade the card and give it the proper grade?

I don't remember them having a guarantee like PSA has.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

My memory is shot so please correct me if I am wrong. Wasn't SGCs guarantee on cards that they would regrade the card and give it the proper grade?

I don't remember them having a guarantee like PSA has.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170704...Guarantee.aspx

The SGC Guarantee


SGC guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the owner of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the owner may resubmit the card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade.

If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's discretion, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card, in the form of either cash or grading credit. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Now that you mention it, you're correct on the Sloan statement - which is appalling in my opinion, particularly since PSA is still advertising a guarantee on their website:

The PSA Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity
This policy is fundamental to PSA's concept of third-party grading. It ensures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA-graded card as long as the card remains in its tamper-evident holder. PSA also guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA.

https://www.psacard.com/about/whypsa/

I'm no lawyer, but it looks like there is enough room in that statement to drive a truck through. Who is the guarantee for - only the original seller or any buyer down the road? And it seems like it's only the grade that is guaranteed - could they just take a card that was mis-graded, say altered but still given an number grade, and reholder it with an 'Authentic - Altered' and call that their guarantee? Holding them accountable would be like what Willie Stargell said of trying to hit Koufax, "trying to drink coffee with a fork".

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I'm no lawyer, but it looks like there is enough room in that statement to drive a truck through. Who is the guarantee for - only the original seller or any buyer down the road? And it seems like it's only the grade that is guaranteed - could they just take a card that was mis-graded, say altered but still given an number grade, and reholder it with an 'Authentic - Altered' and call that their guarantee? Holding them accountable would be like what Willie Stargell said of trying to hit Koufax, "trying to drink coffee with a fork".

yet thus far seems to be an non issue and consensus of this forum is not much will change with PSA.....i would think if a poll was made, most people will think nothing will change but thats just my opinion...someone can always create a poll and prove me wrong...

[Johnny630]

Said this numerous times PSA has a Teflon Non Stick Liability/accountability business mode. Along with two of the biggest marketing hoaxes in the industry pop report and registry. This company will get through this just like all the other scandals. It will come out stronger in the long run/everyone else will take the fall. People are making to much money on their products......they know many are backed into a corner and have to use them for the most part. I’m referring to the major auction houses, dealers, and big eBay sellers. They’re not gonna bite the hand that feeds them. So what if they have to fire people if any have been tired to being paid off for gift grades bfd.
They have a brilliant business, I have to give them credit on that’s.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Said this numerous times PSA has a Teflon Non Stick Liability/accountability business mode. Along with two of the biggest marketing hoaxes in the industry pop report and registry. This company will get through this just like all the other scandals. It will come out stronger in the long run/everyone else will take the fall. People are making to much money on their products......they know many are backed into a corner and have to use them for the most part. I’m referring to the major auction houses, dealers, and big eBay sellers.
They have a brilliant business, I have to give them credit on that’s.

so basically you will be saying nothing will likely happen against them?

[Johnny630]

Jake I can’t predict the future, I don’t know sir it’s all my theory. To me.....people with big money don’t like to be told your PSA graded cards are Sh$t they are on blowout as altered. They just think others are jealous. To many people need PSA for them to bite of their nose to spite their face.....they won’t do it.
I’m not a lawyer.......It Is an opinion only biased company...... you know how many times I try to sell a raw card I get asked do you guarantee PSA will grade this or oh I can’t pay that for a raw card PSA might call it a 6 not a 7. It’s all mental they still LOVE EAT COWER AT THE PSA THRONE...trying to get a lot of victims in court to nail them for big bucks seems very difficult to me can’t even get them to come forward. They’re going back to whom they bought the cards from. And many still don’t know....We are just a few blow hards on a message board. I think it’s all going to be worked out behind the scenes.
Short answer No PSA walks away squeaky clean.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Jake I can’t predict the future, I don’t know sir it’s all my theory. To me.....people with big money don’t like to be told your PSA graded cards are Sh$t they are on blowout as altered. They just think others are jealous. To many people need PSA for them to bite of their nose to spite their face.....they won’t do it.
I’m not a lawyer.......It Is an opinion only biased company...... trying to get a lot of victims in court to nail them for big bucks seems very difficult to me can’t even get them to come forward. They’re going back to whom they bought the cards from. And many still don’t know....We are just a few blow hards on a message board. I think it’s all going to be worked out behind the scenes.
Short answer No PSA walks away squeaky clean.

I 100% agree. The only good part of all this is the BLEEPING A-Holes in on it have been very very quiet on the forums. No calling people idiots and morons and telling BS lies about how honest PSA/Beckett or the hobbies scumbag sellers are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

we will say its early still but also i hearing, nothing will likely happen as well so its double talk..

Actually you started with an insult by quoting one about you. Congrats on that.

I just wanted to point out that you are speculating and have zero knowledge as to what “I hearing .. will likely happen.” A poll is not a substitute for knowledge. I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake your speculation for actual knowledge is all. However as soon as someone hires you to sue PSA or to represent them in connection with the criminal investigation then maybe your claim that “I hearing ... nothing will likely happen” could at least be based in fact.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually you started with an insult by quoting one about you. Congrats on that.

I just wanted to point out that you are speculating and have zero knowledge as to what “I hearing .. will likely happen.” A poll is not a substitute for knowledge. I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake your speculation for actual knowledge is all. However as soon as someone hires you to sue PSA or to represent them in connection with the criminal investigation then maybe your claim that “I hearing ... nothing will likely happen” could at least be based in fact.

so you didnt answer the question on the Gehrig

Also saying only a lawyer for either side are the only people to have knowledge is a falsehood. There are lots of other ways to get knowledge. I have said a number of times i am giving an opinion. My opinion is shared by many others such as Ben and Johnny which i agree with 100% in the last 2 posts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I'm no lawyer, but it looks like there is enough room in that statement to drive a truck through. Who is the guarantee for - only the original seller or any buyer down the road? And it seems like it's only the grade that is guaranteed - could they just take a card that was mis-graded, say altered but still given an number grade, and reholder it with an 'Authentic - Altered' and call that their guarantee? Holding them accountable would be like what Willie Stargell said of trying to hit Koufax, "trying to drink coffee with a fork".

The guarantee is not ambiguous at all. It covers marketplace purchasers (that was the whole point) and certainly applies to altered cards that were originally given numerical grades. PSA does not dispute this. The issue, rather, is application of the guarantee in individual cases, where they can control their payout just by sticking with the original grade.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The guarantee is not ambiguous at all. It covers marketplace purchasers (that was the whole point) and certainly applies to altered cards that were originally given numerical grades. PSA does not dispute this. The issue, rather, is application of the guarantee in individual cases, where they can control their payout just by sticking with the original grade.

In theory they can also change the rules and say properly 'restored' cards can still be a PSA 6 etc

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

In theory they can also change the rules and say properly 'restored' cards can still be a PSA 6 etc

You mean change their definition of what they consider unacceptable alterations? I suppose, but it's hard to believe they will given 25+ years of operating under the same definition.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You mean change their definition of what they consider unacceptable alterations? I suppose, but it's hard to believe they will given 25+ years of operating under the same definition.

Rules do change. There may be small print to read that may say that as well, who knows. When its about subjectivity there is always much more leeway...