Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Peter_Spaeth]

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

Peter your impression which I believe to be 100% true is the reason nothing will change....the altering businesses will continue, PSA will will continue to thrive, the collectors are the last thing PSA Cares About.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

I think "done much" is the key phrase here. I have bought graded cards (though not many), BUT I didn't buy the cards because they were graded. I will still buy cards that are graded but will scrutinize and make appropriate offers on them as if they weren't. I think quite a few people here are at least of the same mind set. That's not much, but I am looking at the cards more closely and not enamored by someone else's opinion.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

Well, you all know what I'm doin....I'm Nancy Reagan, "Just Say No" to all of it.

Why anyone would want to continue to add to what already is easily a Billion $$$$$ fraud is beyond me? It is mind boggling actually. If one has to work with Peter's checklist before buying a stupid card, I don't see the fun or funny in it, honestly.

Ponzi's customers didn't want to believe the sky was falling either and kept adding to it too, much like this PSA SCAM. It's just the sad state of the human condition which is actually most fascinating thing in all this that I enjoy following. Even when they know it's a fraudulent billion dollar scam they can't take the foot off the pedal.

A nice little 2007 recession would shake things up a little.

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Well, you all know what I'm doin....I'm Nancy Reagan, "Just Say No" to all of it.

Why anyone would want to continue to add to what already is easily a Billion $$$$$ fraud is beyond me? It is mind boggling actually. If one has to work with Peter's checklist before buying a stupid card, I don't see the fun or funny in it, honestly.

Ponzi's customers didn't want to believe the sky was falling either and kept adding to it too, much like this PSA SCAM. It's just the sad state of the human condition which is actually most fascinating thing in all this that I enjoy following. Even when they know it's a fraudulent billion dollar scam they can't take the foot off the pedal.

A nice little 2007 recession would shake things up a little.

If there was another recession I would buy even more.

[Johnny630]

Recessions are the best time to buy. I absolutely do not want a recession. To many people get hurt and the altered cards are still crap, just cheaper crap.

[mq711]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

I’m not a big fish but haven’t submitted anything to PSA nor purchased anything from PWCC since I found out about this scandal. Decided to work on a midgrade, raw 1960s set just to keep my interest in the hobby alive.

Perfect example of my feelings is a 1969 Mays PSA 9 on EBay, all I can see is how short the card is in the holder (over 1/16 inch or 1cm) and thus wouldn’t buy it at any price.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My impression is that even here, most people haven't done much to change their buying routine in response to the scandal. If I am wrong I would be very interested to hear what people are doing differently.

I am but a minnow in an extremely large pond when it comes to grading but I did have about ten raw cards I considered sending to PSA as I had hoped for decent grades and being able to sell them for a profit. When this scandal broke I decided the last thing I wanted to do was contribute to the lunacy and have not and will not send those cards in.

I have recently bought already graded cards only because I was buying the card and the graded price and raw price was almost identical. These were low to mid grade cards that obviously have not been doctored and will likely be taken out of their slabs soon.

Reading the Blowout forums as well as a few others, there are certainly far to many people who speak out of both sides of their mouth when they say something needs to be done about this scandal yet send in their cards for grading. When and where do collectors take a stand is a question only each person can answer for themselves.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I am but a minnow in an extremely large pond when it comes to grading but I did have about ten raw cards I considered sending to PSA as I had hoped for decent grades and being able to sell them for a profit. When this scandal broke I decided the last thing I wanted to do was contribute to the lunacy and have not and will not send those cards in.

I have recently bought already graded cards only because I was buying the card and the graded price and raw price was almost identical. These were low to mid grade cards that obviously have not been doctored and will likely be taken out of their slabs soon.

Reading the Blowout forums as well as a few others, there are certainly far to many people who speak out of both sides of their mouth when they say something needs to be done about this scandal yet send in their cards for grading. When and where do collectors take a stand is a question only each person can answer for themselves.

I think the problem arises is this. Why should I be penalized because of all the crap Moser has pulled???? I am not trimming cards. Graded cards bring more. Period. I understand the boycott PSA mentality, but as I stated....Why should my collection take a monetary hit because of the greed of a few individuals?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think the problem arises is this. Why should I be penalized because of all the crap Moser has pulled???? I am not trimming cards. Graded cards bring more. Period. I understand the boycott PSA mentality, but as I stated....Why should my collection take a monetary hit because of the greed of a few individuals?

Scruples.

And it's a lot more than just a few individuals. Moser is just one of very many that continue to get altered cards past PSA.

Money and personal gain seem to be the motivator and common denominator for the vast majority of those who continue to support this highly troubled Authenticator.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think the problem arises is this. Why should I be penalized because of all the crap Moser has pulled???? I am not trimming cards. Graded cards bring more. Period. I understand the boycott PSA mentality, but as I stated....Why should my collection take a monetary hit because of the greed of a few individuals?

Their actions along with PSA's Failures have caused collateral damage to all of us. The collectors always get screwed.

It's a shame the industry and hobby will survive it always has and always will.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Their actions along with PSA's Failures have caused collateral damage to all of us. The collectors always get screwed.

It's a shame the industry and hobby will survive it always has and always will.

Right... Post #1073 illustrates exactly why it will take a significant market correction for people to change their collecting habits, and eventually stop supporting the corruption and deception.
But until that correction comes, very little is likely to change (unless by some miracle, the FBI can intervene).

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Why should my collection take a monetary hit because of the greed of a few individuals?

The same reason all our houses and portfolios took a hit in 2009....the greed of a few individuals. Like it or not, everything’s linked.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think the problem arises is this. Why should I be penalized because of all the crap Moser has pulled???? I am not trimming cards. Graded cards bring more. Period. I understand the boycott PSA mentality, but as I stated....Why should my collection take a monetary hit because of the greed of a few individuals?

For years that monetary value has had the benefit of that same greed of a few individuals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

all is well

https://seekingalpha.com/article/430...=seeking_alpha

[Johnny630]

From the Above Article....two main points to me.

Remember this is a very emotional marketplace. Collectors have an emotional attachment and they would pay any fee to have their collectibles graded if they think it is worth a lot of money.

[perezfan]

Disgustingly gratuitous article. Does this guy have blinders on? Not a word about the scandal... completely irresponsible reporting.

Feels like there was some “greasing of palms” that preceded that article.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

all is well

https://seekingalpha.com/article/430...=seeking_alpha

From the article-

As more people become aware of the PSA and PCGS brand name, trust becomes a key component in the marketplace. It is a guarantee that gives buyers and sellers stable ground around transactions.



.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

From the article-

As more people become aware of the PSA and PCGS brand name, trust becomes a key component in the marketplace. It is a guarantee that gives buyers and sellers stable ground around transactions.



.

Amen. Tell it, Joe.

[Goudey77]

I really don't need to state this to the educated collectors on Net54.
But I want to say the obvious in response to the comment below..You already know the driving factor in this entire hobby will always be about money. Everything is driven by TPG's, Auction Houses, VCP data and the consumers chasing profits.
Everything else is just noise.

It's not a casual sentimental hobby like it was in the 80's and earlier.
It's a foregone conclusion that the show must go on.

Originally Posted by whitehse

Reading the Blowout forums as well as a few others, there are certainly far to many people who speak out of both sides of their mouth when they say something needs to be done about this scandal yet send in their cards for grading. When and where do collectors take a stand is a question only each person can answer for themselves.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

I really don't need to state this to the educated collectors on Net54.
But I want to say the obvious in response to the comment below..You already know the driving factor in this entire hobby will always be about money. Everything is driven by TPG's, Auction Houses, VCP data and the consumers chasing profits.
Everything else is just noise.

It's not a casual sentimental hobby like it was in the 80's and earlier.
It's a foregone conclusion that the show must go on.

I do not disagree that the driving factor in this issue is indeed money. A wiser man than I once wrote that the LOVE is money is the root of all evil (Thank you Paul).

My opinion is that there are far more collectors who collect for the fun of it and perhaps even the memories the hobby incites for them and not for the money. I strongly believe there is a much higher percentage of collectors who fall into this category and could care less about getting the highest grade possible or being the top dog on the registry. What I feel this means is that eventually, mid or low grade cards will become the norm and raw will once again make a come back and collectors who purchased these high grade cards will eventually lose money because their high grade cards will be tainted even if they are NOT doctored. There will still be speculators but I hope that this scandal will help separate a few of them out and help to eliminate some of the card doctors profits.

Maybe I am being a bit Pollyanna about this but I am still a hopeless romantic when it comes to this hobby.

[Goudey77]

Although there could be a loss due to natural collectible market scenarios. I'd say your last statement about high grade card prices losing due to being tainted regardless of doctoring is a pipedream

Money does not lose money generally. There will be no need for a fire sale. These cards are secure by their financially stable owners until the next buyer lines up to win it at the next auction.

Low mid grade will always be for the collectors. I just don't see much changing from the current state.

Originally Posted by whitehse

I do not disagree that the driving factor in this issue is indeed money. A wiser man than I once wrote that the LOVE is money is the root of all evil (Thank you Paul).

My opinion is that there are far more collectors who collect for the fun of it and perhaps even the memories the hobby incites for them and not for the money. I strongly believe there is a much higher percentage of collectors who fall into this category and could care less about getting the highest grade possible or being the top dog on the registry. What I feel this means is that eventually, mid or low grade cards will become the norm and raw will once again make a come back and collectors who purchased these high grade cards will eventually lose money because their high grade cards will be tainted even if they are NOT doctored. There will still be speculators but I hope that this scandal will help separate a few of them out and help to eliminate some of the card doctors profits.

Maybe I am being a bit Pollyanna about this but I am still a hopeless romantic when it comes to this hobby.