"Grading Scandal" in a nutshell, please

perezfan · #1 12-29-2019, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil68

I just read a bunch. This is actually REALLY serious. I have always known that PSA was in WAY over their head in terms of applying a consistent grading standard. I also figured, with the turnover and inexperience of graders, doctored cards would, doubtless, be making their way into holders...
It never occurred to me that it would be an actual scam and they would fail to be accountable in such an obvious way.

I met Joe Orlando about 20 years ago. He was a plastic fellow with limited basic intelligence but tried hard to be "one of the guys". He would "ok" bulk submissions I would do with other set-builders and we would talk sports, cards and collecting. It was a fairly transient relationship but he would actually answer my direct calls. I appreciated him.

I have watched him and his company become one of the most arrogant and unlikable group of folks in the world. I really mean that. I have a fair amount of money invested in cards that PSA has encapsulated but, I can honestly say, not once have a bought ANY card BECAUSE it was in a PSA holder. I think the fact that he has sold off a significant amount of his stock may be quite telling.

The biggest question (to many of us) is whether PSA is complicit in the grading of altered cards, or simply too incompetent to detect them. The number of altered/numerically slabbed cards is now well into the thousands, with values totaling tens of millions of dollars. And only a tiny percentage of the tainted card pool has been revealed to date. It is quite difficult and time consuming to fully research and reveal these alterations. So it's still the tip of the iceberg, as many have stated.

Hopefully the FBI (who's been investigating this for months) will clear up the incompetence/complicity question, and will issue arrests commensurate with the level of fraud committed.

Stampsfan · #2 12-29-2019, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

The biggest question (to many of us) is whether PSA is complicit in the grading of altered cards, or simply too incompetent to detect them...

IMO You've hit the nail on the head. No matter which one this is, it's disgusting that they are either:
a. Horrible at their job
b. Outright thieves

Not sure which one I am actually hoping for...

seff · #3 12-29-2019, 07:40 AM

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

bnorth · #4 12-29-2019, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

I have never once heard that before. I do know many examples of the exact opposite. I even had a guy 2 days ago when discussing altered vs 1 grades say his Old Judge card was graded Authentic by SGC but after cracking it out sent it to PSA and got a 1 grade.

I do agree that all companies slabs have altered cards in them.

ullmandds · #5 12-29-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never once heard that before. I do know many examples of the exact opposite. I even had a guy 2 days ago when discussing altered vs 1 grades say his Old Judge card was graded Authentic by SGC but after cracking it out sent it to PSA and got a 1 grade.

I do agree that all companies slabs have altered cards in them.

Agreed Ben...not sure who "they" is who supposedly says "this?"

From my personal experience...on 2 occasions SGC rejected twice as A...PSA gave numbers.

seff · #6 12-29-2019, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Agreed Ben...not sure who "they" is who supposedly says "this?"

From my personal experience...on 2 occasions SGC rejected twice as A...PSA gave numbers.

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

irv · #7 12-29-2019, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

There are 3 possibilities here?

Either someone is feeding you a pile of B.S., you have PSA cards that you are trying to protect the value of or your a PSA troll?

Not a chance PSA grades harsher than SGC. That one is easily debunked just by checking out graded cards on ebay, here, or Blowout.

ullmandds · #8 12-29-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

You�re Clueless with a capital C!

A lemming with a capital L!

A sheeple with a capital S!

Baaaaaaaaaaah!

Phil68 · #9 12-29-2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

Hello Dave. I don't know you but cannot say with more certainty that you are incorrect. Dreadfully and alarmingly so. I could soften it by saying the good 'ol, "everyone's experiences may differ, and may even be relative to what they collect?" Big picture, however, your assertion is pure folly.

I could elaborate but it would sound harsh in written form. If we were in person, I would be speaking in an apologetic tone--not attacking.

Frank A · #10 12-30-2019, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

Where did you come up with that fantasy?

Leon · #11 01-12-2020, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

I hear this from all over the place. SGC/Beckett also gives higher grades than PSA. I've cracked slabs and crossed over raw. PSA always grades harsher. Hence, higher value.

All just opinions.

Fred · #12 12-29-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

If PSA rejects it then you can be sure it's altered....

I would think the TPG names could be interchangeable in what is written above.

No one is perfect? Yeah, but you'd hope that when you start a business of being a TPG service, that you'd at least get the first card right (or at least the first few).

cammb · #13 12-30-2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseff

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

Who says that?

doug.goodman · #14 05-30-2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seff

No grading company is perfect. PSA rejected 2 of my cards twice for Altered Stock.

Sent to SGC. Both graded no problem. SGC holders contain many altered stock cards.

As they say: If PSA rejects it SGC and Beckett will grade it.

No one is perfect.

Really what you are saying is that you don't care that your cards are altered as long as somebody will grade them eventually (at least three submissions for each of the cards mentioned in your post).

When you sell those two cards your line will be "graded by SGC" with no mention of the two rejections.

YOU are what is wrong with what many of us still consider a hobby.

I don't know you, but I don't like you.

Doug "don't take it personally, I don't like very many people" Goodman

jbsports33 · #15 05-30-2020, 06:17 PM

Phil,

Just keep it simple, be smart about your buying and keep up with the news enough to make the right moves buying cards. Do not let bad apples in the hobby keep you from your enjoyment of collecting. Good Luck!

Net54 and https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/ are great resources to keep you up to date!

Jimmy

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