Breaking News - Cleveland Indians

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by packs

Since there is still some debate on why the name was changed, I will post the exact explanation from the owner of the team again:

“Hearing firsthand the stories and experiences of Native American people, we gained a deep understanding of how tribal communities feel about the team name and the detrimental effects it has on them,” team owner Paul Dolan said in a statement. “While Indians will always be a part of our history, it is time to move forward and work to unify our stakeholders and fans through a new name.”

Understood, Packs. I think many of us read that as we would all of the great things Exxon is doing to preserve nature and make the world a better place. As previously pointed out, it's a business. The recent wave of virtue signaling and corporate "social responsibility" is a well-calculated marketing decision. Executives (including the Cleveland baseball club) understand their target market has changed and they need to lure the zoomers and millennials to sell tickets.

I also agree, all people deserve respect and its always worth having the conversation. I personally feel Chief Wahoo is inappropriate and he could go away altogether. Teams update their logos all the time. Unless the term is blatantly derogatory, I'm not sure you'll ever get consensus on whether Indian, Native American, Indigenous, etc is more appropriate. But a small segment of society (that isn't generally part of the group in question) consistently takes it upon themselves to lecture and dictate everyone elses perspective. I believe a lot of the comments above reflect the exhaustion of these self-righteous, self-appointed moral compasses of the masses.

Cleveland can be whatever they want to be.

[packs]

I disagree with your Exxon comparison. This isn't a matter of paying lip service. Unless you're suggesting the owner of the team is doing something nefarious he's covering up for with an announcement like he's changing the century old name of his baseball franchise.

The man explained why he did what he did. To refuse to accept the explanation and to act as though you (the royal you, not you specifically) know the "real" reasons is at odds with what is actually happening.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by packs

I disagree with your Exxon comparison. This isn't a matter of paying lip service. Unless you're suggesting the owner of the team is doing something nefarious he's covering up for with an announcement like he's changing the century old name of his baseball franchise.

The man explained why he did what he did. To refuse to accept the explanation and to act as though you (the royal you, not you specifically) know the "real" reasons is at odds with what is actually happening.

Sure, it wasn't a well-calculated business decision. The timing on the change simply was this owner's sudden realization that we had it all wrong for 100 years. Clearly this was out of the kindness of his heart and there was no business value in doing so. Got it. The Exxon comparison from the standpoint of how companies use PR is a fair one. Nobody suggested anything nefarious. Perhaps you feel all companies and government are altruistic and principled...well, unless they don't share your perspective of the world?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Sure, it wasn't a well-calculated business decision. The timing on the change simply was this owner's sudden realization that we had it all wrong for 100 years. Clearly this was out of the kindness of his heart and there was no business value in doing so. Got it. The Exxon comparison from the standpoint of how companies use PR is a fair one. Nobody suggested anything nefarious. Perhaps you feel all companies and government are altruistic and principled...well, unless they don't share your perspective of the world?

+ 1000000....anybody that disagrees hasn't been in business. We all know the answer is always MONEY (as well as it should be for a for profit business).

But saying he is righting a wrong for altruistic reasons is far fetched and inaccurate. imo.

.

[sdimag]

Originally Posted by Leon

+ 1000000....anybody that disagrees hasn't been in business. We all know the answer is always MONEY (as well as it should be for a for profit business).

But saying he is righting a wrong for altruistic reasons is far fetched and inaccurate. imo.

.

Exactly!

[triwak]

Why not consult with the leaders of the local area's prevalent Native American tribe, and if it's acceptable to them, use that tribe name as the mascot (ala the Florida Seminoles)? I thought the same thing should have been done in Washington. Seems like that would be respectful, while keeping an element of tradition. I think the "one-size-fits-all" terms are partly the reason Native Americans have a problem with such terms. They don't identify that way.

[Shoeless Moe]

I say they come up with 30 new nicknames, all politically correct, or what's politically correct for the time being, subject to change down the road of course.

Then there is a draft for the 30 names.

".....and the 30th pick in the MLB name draft the team formerly known as the Yankees will now be.......the Pigeons."

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by triwak

Why not consult with the leaders of the local area's prevalent Native American tribe, and if it's acceptable to them, use that tribe name as the mascot (ala the Florida Seminoles)? I thought the same thing should have been done in Washington. Seems like that would be respectful, while keeping an element of tradition.

Who's saying they didn't? Or, perhaps, the Cleveland owners didn't want to select one tribe over another?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by triwak

Why not consult with the leaders of the local area's prevalent Native American tribe, and if it's acceptable to them, use that tribe name as the mascot (ala the Florida Seminoles)? I thought the same thing should have been done in Washington. Seems like that would be respectful, while keeping an element of tradition. I think the "one-size-fits-all" terms are partly the reason Native Americans have a problem with such terms. They don't identify that way.

That is exactly what the owner did and why the team's name is changing. Also, the largest Seminole tribe opposes the use of their name.