The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Which is worse? To memorialize a KKK member with a bust or parade with them?

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS. Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK in his youth, later calling it the biggest mistake of his life. He renounced the KKK, racism and segregation. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a traitor, an unrepentant racist and a sociopathic murderer.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS.

More disingenuous than your BS post?

You think political reasons might have been why Byrd renounced the KKK, racism and segregation?

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

More disingenuous than your BS post?

You think political reasons might have been why Byrd renounced the KKK, racism and segregation?

You are the one who compared him to the author of the Fort Pillow massacre and the Grand Wizard of the KKK. I am not sure that Senator Byrd was too concerned about “political reasons”considering that his state, even today, is more than 93% white. So President Biden was photographed with Senator Byrd. That proves exactly what? Shall I post the dozens of photos of Trump with known racists, insurrectionists and pedophiles? To what end?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

you are the one who compared him to the author of the fort pillow massacre and the grand wizard of the kkk. I am not sure that senator byrd was too concerned about “political reasons”considering that his state, even today, is more than 93% white. So president biden was photographed with senator byrd. That proves exactly what? Shall i post the dozens of photos of trump with known racists, insurrectionists and pedophiles? To what end?

Can't reason with stupidity.

[rholmes]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

gfy

Better watch out, your intelligence is showing.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by rholmes

Better watch out, your intelligence is showing.

The one who can point out the transgressions of one person while overlooking the same transgressions of another is whose intelligence (or lack of) is showing.

[Chuck9788]

How is their new logo not a trademark copyright infringement of the Los Angeles Angels?!?

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Chuck9788

How is their new logo not a trademark copyright infringement of the Los Angeles Angels?!?

That's one of the first things I noticed too. Whether or not it is a trademark infringement, it certainly is remarkably similar. Might want to rethink it before all the gear gets mass produced, although come to think of it, I like it more than I do the Angels logo.

[packs]

Can anyone name one good thing you can’t do anymore? People are obsessed with calling out cancel culture but what have you lost in anything that’s happened? That is a sincere question. What is lost by changing the name of a baseball team that clearly mocked its source? What is lost in monuments to Confederate traitors? What’s lost in respecting people’s identities? I truly am curious as to what it is you feel is so important to hold onto in any of these modern changes?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Chuck9788

How is their new logo not a trademark copyright infringement of the Los Angeles Angels?!?

No imagination whatsoever.

Who was it that determined modern logos have to be so bland? I thought the new LA Rams logo was horrendous, but this one gives it a run for the money.

[sdimag]

I quit watching baseball,football,and basketball 2 years ago. If sports owners want to cater to the woke folks,go for it! But you will never get another dollar from me! Let the woke crowd support them!

It just sucks the Guardians Name and so does Major League Baseball

Ron Petersen

[fkm_bky]

It’s actually quite relevant of a logo if you know that the statues of the Guardians have that same winged design on their helmets. But why would people know that, it’s not like it isn’t readily available information on the web. Let’s just be lazy and say it’s stupid.

I’m not a Cleveland fan and have never been there but it took all of 15 seconds to educate myself.

Bill

Originally Posted by perezfan

No imagination whatsoever.

Who was it that determined modern logos have to be so bland? I thought the new LA Rams logo was horrendous, but this one gives it a run for the money.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Chuck9788

How is their new logo not a trademark copyright infringement of the Los Angeles Angels?!?

Also shitty...

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Can't reason with stupidity.

I agree. Certainly your ignorant responses have proved that point.

[Mark17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

Originally Posted by bigtrain

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS. Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK in his youth, later calling it the biggest mistake of his life. He renounced the KKK, racism and segregation. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a traitor, an unrepentant racist and a sociopathic murderer.

Forrest joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 (two years after its founding) and was elected its first Grand Wizard. The group was a loose collection of local factions throughout the former Confederacy that used violence and the threat of violence to maintain white control over the newly enfranchised former slaves. The Klan, with Forrest at the lead, suppressed voting rights of blacks in the South through violence and intimidation during the elections of 1868.

In 1869, Forrest expressed disillusionment with the lack of discipline in the white supremacist terrorist group across the South and issued a letter ordering the dissolution of the Ku Klux Klan as well as the destruction of its costumes; he then withdrew from the organization. In the last years of his life, Forrest insisted he had never been a member and made a public speech in favor of racial harmony.

Much like Bob Byrd, Forrest denounced racism later in life.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Should I get rid of my Manny rookie and get the one in a high school uniform or the one in street clothes?

I lost it with this movement when San Francisco changed the name of a school previously named after Abraham Lincoln, because of his role in the 1837 Black Hawk War.

Speaking of Black Hawks, COME ON Chicago. How about the Chicago Loop or something.

[seanofjapan]

As someone who has never been to Cleveland I wasn’t sure what to make of the new name, wondering why the team was now named after an English newspaper.

But then it was explained the name comes from some statues on a bridge (pictured in comments above). Are these famous landmarks in Cleveland that all the locals know about? If so, it seems like a good choice for a name.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

As someone who has never been to Cleveland I wasn’t sure what to make of the new name, wondering why the team was now named after an English newspaper.

But then it was explained the name comes from some statues on a bridge (pictured in comments above). Are these famous landmarks in Cleveland that all the locals know about? If so, it seems like a good choice for a name.

Yeah, we know of them them, but they aren't all that famous. Don't forget this is the town that has "A Tower that is Terminal, overlooking a Lake that is Erie!" It is the "Mistake on the Lake", and we also have the (in)famous burning Cuyahoga River. Which was famously immortalized in song by Randy Newman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0zG5aux9zs

In fact, the Cuyahoga River is just across the street and down the hill from the stadium, and Cleveland is in Cuyahoga County and the Cuyahoga Valley National Park is just a few miles south of the stadium as well. Doesn't roll off the tongue as well, but could have called them the Cleveland Cuyahogans. A somewhat unique name, and since it is a mixture of names that different native American tribes called the river, it has a tie to the old team name of the Indians, while not directly offending anyone (at least no one I can think of). We already have the best state rock-n-roll song in the world that gets played during 7th inning or late inning stretches (Hang On Sloopy), as well as Ian Hunter's anthem (Cleveland Rocks) to play after victories. We also have favorite sons like Drew Carey and Bob Hope (whose Father the Hope Memorial Bridge is actually named for) Oh, and Bob Hope was actually an owner of the Indians back in the 60s and appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated's June 3, 1963 cover in an Indians uniform, with Chief Wahoo prominently displayed.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/201...pid=will-smith

And who can forget "Hot In Cleveland", or the Rock-N-Roll HOF and Museum on the lakefront, or "The Christmas Story" house and museum in the Tremont section of town. And of course you can also see the old League Park and museum on Cleveland's near East side, which was built originally in 1891 and was where the Cleveland Spiders, and later the Naps and Indians actually played. It is also the site of the first de facto All-Star game on July 24, 1911 when the Naps played a team of assembled All-Stars in an exhibition game for the benefit of Addie Joss' widow and family. That is the game where Cobb didn't have his Tiger's uniform and borrowed a Cleveland uniform to play in.

https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-...ar-game/77109/

And eventually the Negro League team the Cleveland Buckeyes played at League Park as well. Maybe another good name they could have chosen for the team if not for The Ohio State University probably having a stranglehold on that copyright.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Am I politically incorrect to still own this? Bet you're noticing that logo a lot more than you would have in the past.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Am I politically incorrect to still own this? Bet you're noticing that logo a lot more than you would have in the past.

Hey, I still have my vintage 1940's Rempel doll of Chief Wahoo. Definitely not getting rid of that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey, I still have my vintage 1940's Rempel doll of Chief Wahoo. Definitely not getting rid of that.

My collection is looking worse by the moment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

uh oh

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My collection is looking worse by the moment.

Peter,

If you think those are that bad, go back to what Chief Wahoo looked like in the 40s when they last won a World Series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkCBblpoMCw

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest




Forrest joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 (two years after its founding) and was elected its first Grand Wizard. The group was a loose collection of local factions throughout the former Confederacy that used violence and the threat of violence to maintain white control over the newly enfranchised former slaves. The Klan, with Forrest at the lead, suppressed voting rights of blacks in the South through violence and intimidation during the elections of 1868.

In 1869, Forrest expressed disillusionment with the lack of discipline in the white supremacist terrorist group across the South and issued a letter ordering the dissolution of the Ku Klux Klan as well as the destruction of its costumes; he then withdrew from the organization. In the last years of his life, Forrest insisted he had never been a member and made a public speech in favor of racial harmony.

Much like Bob Byrd, Forrest denounced racism later in life.

+1

But as I said earlier, you can't reason with stupidly. But I guess the jackass hasn't read your post yet, otherwise he would call it "disingenuous BS" as he did mine.

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+1

But as I said earlier, you can't reason with stupidly. But I guess the jackass hasn't read your post yet, otherwise he would call it "disingenuous BS" as he did mine.

Bob Byrd never massacred Black Union Soldiers as they were trying to surrender. They are not equivalent. You are a moron.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Bob Byrd never massacred Black Union Soldiers as they were trying to surrender. They are not equivalent. You are a moron.

And you are not God. You don't get to decide which sins are forgiven and which are not, you ignorant jackass.

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And you are not God. You don't get to decide which sins are forgiven and which are not, you ignorant jackass.

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

What are the odds a thread about the new Cleveland nickname ends up as a discussion of Senator Robert Byrd and General Nathan Bedford Forrest (who, by the way, speaking strictly of him as a general, apparently was studied by the Germans in WWII)? Pretty long odds ex ante I would think.

Slightly more on topic, do all the forts in the South named after Confederate generals need to be renamed?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

One guy is a murderer, one is not. What is so difficult to understand about that? Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

The only thing that will stop the cancel culture from continuing to mow down traditions in this country will be their hypocrisy, when they give certain people who have done reprehensible things a pass because of political affiliations. Although in the case of Forrest and Byrd, both were of the same party.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Name calling that is devoid of logic does not win arguments

Starting your first post to me with, "I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS" does not win arguments either.

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by Mark17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest




Forrest joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 (two years after its founding) and was elected its first Grand Wizard. The group was a loose collection of local factions throughout the former Confederacy that used violence and the threat of violence to maintain white control over the newly enfranchised former slaves. The Klan, with Forrest at the lead, suppressed voting rights of blacks in the South through violence and intimidation during the elections of 1868.

In 1869, Forrest expressed disillusionment with the lack of discipline in the white supremacist terrorist group across the South and issued a letter ordering the dissolution of the Ku Klux Klan as well as the destruction of its costumes; he then withdrew from the organization. In the last years of his life, Forrest insisted he had never been a member and made a public speech in favor of racial harmony.

Much like Bob Byrd, Forrest denounced racism later in life.

Look. This discussion has nothing to do with the thread. It started because vintagetoppsguy tried to disparage Biden, who I am no fan of BTW, by showing a picture of him with Robert Byrd and suggesting that that was worse than having a bust honoring Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest. Never mind that Robert Byrd served in the Senate for 51 years and was minority leader at the time, obviously someone Biden was obligated to work with. Never mind that Byrd joined the KKK as a youth but later called it the biggest mistake of his life and renounced racism and segregation. Never mind that Forrest was not just a member of the KKK but its Grand Wizard. Never mind that Forrest massacred Black Union soldiers at Fort Pillow as they tried to surrender. Never mind that the false equivalency could not be more obvious. The level of evil displayed by Forrest is in no way comparable to Robert Byrd. Not equivalent at all. For pointing this out, I was called stupid and a jackass. How ridiculous. I am done. This has nothing to do with Cleveland adopting new name.