1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[packs]

I think some of those things are true but we're talking about hitting a baseball. It will always come down to timing and I don't think a guy like say Bill Terry would have a problem adjusting timing for anyone throwing him the ball.

[Shoeless Moe]

Ohtani is 5-1

6 whopping decisions.

Wins are against Texas, Seattle, Detroit, Boston and Colorado - big deal.

Jeff Springs of Tampa is also 5-1, who? exactly.


Ohtani is a nice 6th starter.

[Shoeless Moe]

Babe Ruth vs Ohtani Career pitching

Ruth
94-46
2.28 era

3-0 in 2 WS with 0.87 era

Owetani
9-4
3.58 era

hasn't sniffed a playoff game (when everybody and their sister gets into the playoffs these days) let alone a WS

GOODNIGHT!

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Babe Ruth vs Ohtani Career pitching

Ruth
94-46
2.28 era

3-0 in 2 WS with 0.87 era

Owetani
9-4
3.58 era

hasn't sniffed a playoff game (when everybody and their sister gets into the playoffs these days) let alone a WS

GOODNIGHT!

10-4, you said it.

To think and state that Walter Johnson threw his heater 83 MPH is total BS nonsense. That's little kid stuff, then and now. Total BS.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Ohtani is 5-1

6 whopping decisions.

Wins are against Texas, Seattle, Detroit, Boston and Colorado - big deal.

Jeff Springs of Tampa is also 5-1, who? exactly.


Ohtani is a nice 6th starter.

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Babe Ruth vs Ohtani Career pitching

Ruth
94-46
2.28 era

3-0 in 2 WS with 0.87 era

Owetani
9-4
3.58 era

hasn't sniffed a playoff game (when everybody and their sister gets into the playoffs these days) let alone a WS

GOODNIGHT!

GOOD MORNING!

era as a word does not mean earned run average

and babe ruth is not a candy bar

I think you missed the point about comparing records 100 years apart

Against the pitching Ruth faced in 1919 as a batter, I would guess that Ohtani would hit more than 714 HRs.

Given the pitching that Ohtani is facing as a batter, I would guess that Ruth would hit less than 714 HRs.

This does not mean Ohtani is a better player than Ruth. It does not mean Ohtani will play for 20 years. It does not mean that Ruth should not be in the HOF.

The thread merely looks at the obstacles both faced by pitching and hitting daily in the same season, even though the seasons are 102 years apart and today’s game is different in many, many ways from 1919.

Babe Ruth said he couldn’t do it forever and it is likely that Ohtani will not either.

To mention their names in the same sentence is not balderdash though.

[jingram058]

Against the pitching Ruth faced in 1919 as a batter, I would guess that Ohtani would hit more than 714 HRs.

Nonsense! Just delusional nonsense.

Where did people today get the idea that MLB pitchers back then threw little league speed, when there were only 8 teams in each league, and the gene pool wasn't watered down?

Read Ritter's book to gain some insight into 19 teens and 20s pitching. I put more credence on reality rather than on speculation decades removed.

[packs]

I brought it up earlier but Bob Feller debuts in 1936, only a decade after Walter retires. I don't think anyone says Bob Feller threw in the 80s. Is it reasonable to think that the human body evolved so much in such little time? Bob Feller was 17 years old in 1936.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I brought it up earlier but Bob Feller debuts in 1936, only a decade after Walter retires. I don't think anyone says Bob Feller threw in the 80s. Is it reasonable to think that the human body evolved so much in such little time? Bob Feller was 17 years old in 1936.

I wonder how fast Grove threw, that would be interesting.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by packs

I brought it up earlier but Bob Feller debuts in 1936, only a decade after Walter retires. I don't think anyone says Bob Feller threw in the 80s. Is it reasonable to think that the human body evolved so much in such little time? Bob Feller was 17 years old in 1936.

Walter Johnson was 49 years old in 1936. I think it's reasonable to think the arm developed that much in 32 years.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Babe Ruth vs Ohtani Career pitching

Ruth
94-46
2.28 era

3-0 in 2 WS with 0.87 era

Owetani
9-4
3.58 era

hasn't sniffed a playoff game (when everybody and their sister gets into the playoffs these days) let alone a WS

GOODNIGHT!

Ruth pitched in the dead ball era though. Not even remotely close to an apples to apples comparison.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ruth pitched in the dead ball era though. Not even remotely close to an apples to apples comparison.

Frank A just made a very good point in the post above yours. Ruth didn't have that luxury of only going 5-6-7 innings then having the bullpen come in, he went the distance. Or Ruth's ERA would be even lower and Ohtani even higher if he had to go as deep in a game.

Of course you can come back with Ruth didn't play against everyone he could have played against.

It could go back and forth, bottom line is the final numbers in the book, and Ruth's annihilate Ohtani's pitching & hitting statistics. Not even a comparison. Call me in 10 years, when the Angels still suck.

Trout's been stuck in purgatory 11 years ZERO playoff wins .083 lifetime playoff batting average. Enjoy the money boys, you'll never wear the ring!! Unless they are bidders in Goldin's Auctions.

[Shoeless Moe]

In fact I'll go on record and say Trout's Rookie Card will sink like a stone once his career is over and he never made a WS appearance.

A rich man's Ernie Banks.

There will some new "best ever" player who will be the hot thing to own.

SELL NOW

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ruth pitched in the dead ball era though. Not even remotely close to an apples to apples comparison.

Are you referring to Ruth's ERA being so much lower than Ohtani's, even though Ruth pitched in more than 5X the number of games in his career than Ohtani has so far, and that during the dead ball era teams scored less runs than they do now, and thus a reason why Ruth's era was so much lower? Or how about the that fact that of the 147 games Ruth started in his career, 107 of them were complete games, whereas of the 27 games Ohtani has started in his MLB career, he has yet to pitch a single complete game?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by bobc

are you referring to ruth's era being so much lower than ohtani's, even though ruth pitched in more than 5x the number of games in his career than ohtani has so far, and that during the dead ball era teams scored less runs than they do now, and thus a reason why ruth's era was so much lower? Or how about the that fact that of the 147 games ruth started in his career, 107 of them were complete games, whereas of the 27 games ohtani has started in his mlb career, he has yet to pitch a single complete game?

love it!!!!!!!!!

[Frank A]

In Ohtani's defense, he is not allowed to pitch a full game. They take him out in the 6th inning and let the relievers lose it for him. Had he stayed in some of those games his record would probably be 11 or 12 wins. Angels bullpen pitches like shit.

[BobC]

Some additional pitching comparisons:

Ruth at 94-46 and Ohtani at 9-4, have comparable winning percentages of around .691-.692. But Ohtani has started a total 27 MLB games so true winning percentage based on actual starts is really only .333. Meanwhile, Ruth has 94 wins in 147 starts, for a true winning percentage based on starts of around .693. Now to be fair, Ruth also had 16 relief appeances in his career, leading to a total of 163 pitching appearances lifetime. I doubt all 16 of those relief appearances resulted in wins for Ruth, but even if you factor in all his pitching appearences, he still ends up with an overral winning percentage based appearences of about .577, quite a bit higher than Ohtani.

Nows here's a pitching stat that does favor Ohtani. Over his career so far, MLB batters have averaged hitting only .199 against him, whereas Ruth's career average by hitters batting against him was .224, which though still really good, is a bit higher. Of course, in Ohtani's case the MLB batting average during the years he's pitched in so far is .248, so he's doing .049 better than the league average, not bad at all. Oooohhh, wait though, during the years Ruth pitched the MLB batting average was .332, which means Ruth was .108 below the MLB average, pitching over a much longer period of time and a lot more appearances, the majority of which were complete games.

Ohtani is still considered in the early part of his MLB career, and therefore has a lot more playing to do and stats to put up. However, he's already incurred significant injuries and downtime from playing, and in going forward in his MLB career to get close to some Ruth pitching stats will take an exceptional improvement in some areas for him to begin approaching Ruth. I wish him well, good player.