ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[taul166]

I just received an email from PWCC confirming the ebay suspension, so the action taken by ebay is true.

[JollyElm]

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

I don't think this changes much at all in terms of the overall market. The people doing the shill bidding are the people sending in consignments and flippers who are trying to artificially inflate sold listings prices of cards that they own. They won't stop just because PWCC is gone. All those cards are just going to get sent to other consignment companies. They're still going to shill bid these auctions, they're just going to be doing it with Probstein or 4SC or whoever else now.

The responsibility to prevent shill bidding lies solely on eBay's shoulders, not the consignment companies.

[cannonballsun]

The banning of PWCC is a huge and drastic move by eBay, a move that will surely cost them money. As businesses are always driven by the desire to make money, first and foremost, there must be a very compelling reason for them to do it. The only reason that makes sense to me is that the long awaited FBI investigation is coming to a close, and PWCC is going to be hit with Mastro-like charges. EBay wants to separate themselves from PWCC, and that investigation, and those charges.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
I can't see eBay doing this out of spite because PWCC is going to make their own auction site. A business that operates on spite is a very unprofessional business, and all their execs should be canned, if that's what they are doing.
As always, time will tell, but this is a huge move. By the way, I didn't get the email from eBay. I do believe I am on PWCC's email list as I receive email from them all the time.
I did buy one item from PWCC, but I believe it was the only one I ever bought from them. It was an large, ungraded lot of 1962 Jell-O cards. That is my number one collecting interest, so I went for it. I have bid on other items that they have for sale, but I always get outbid. Their items generally sell for higher prices than I am willing to pay.

[mrreality68]

Alot happened in a very very short time.

We will have to wait and see if there are any further explanations from either side and
Time will tell what the fallout is from it

Stay Tuned

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

It's true that PWCC's money is not very much relative to eBay as a whole. But if the FBI announced that it was pressing charges or investigating eBay for colluding with PWCC on defrauding bidders, that would result in huge and very unwelcome negative publicity that would have a big effect on all of eBay. They certainly want to avoid that, so my guess is that the FBI showed eBay the evidence they have on PWCC, and eBay is scrambling to distance themselves from PWCC and show the Feds that they are not going to tolerate that behavior any more.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by cannonballsun

The banning of PWCC is a huge and drastic move by eBay, a move that will surely cost them money. As businesses are always driven by the desire to make money, first and foremost, there must be a very compelling reason for them to do it. The only reason that makes sense to me is that the long awaited FBI investigation is coming to a close, and PWCC is going to be hit with Mastro-like charges. EBay wants to separate themselves from PWCC, and that investigation, and those charges.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
I can't see eBay doing this out of spite because PWCC is going to make their own auction site.

+1 to all. Just the thought of being associated with a federal investigation, even if nothing eventually comes from it, is probably enough for Ebay to punt on the $6 million a year revenue.

[jingram058]

Is there a chance this move by eBay on PWCC has any effect at all on Dean's?

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Is there a chance this move by eBay on PWCC has any effect at all on Dean's?

..I thought "Dean's" already had their own Non-Ebay page on the internet ?

..

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Is there a chance this move by eBay on PWCC has any effect at all on Dean's?

Guessing, but doubtful that Dean's has anywhere near the overall sales volume of PWCC. And from what I have seen, eBay is just one of their many platforms (they also list many of the exact same cards on Amazon too...) - not their main source of revenue.

Yes, they have their own website - and have for years. I think it could be argued they try to get most of their business through that website, because to my knowledge none of Dean's "discount" (sorry, try not to laugh) algorithms work when you are buying single cards of his on eBay.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cannonballsun

The banning of PWCC is a huge and drastic move by eBay, a move that will surely cost them money. As businesses are always driven by the desire to make money, first and foremost, there must be a very compelling reason for them to do it. The only reason that makes sense to me is that the long awaited FBI investigation is coming to a close, and PWCC is going to be hit with Mastro-like charges. EBay wants to separate themselves from PWCC, and that investigation, and those charges.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
I can't see eBay doing this out of spite because PWCC is going to make their own auction site. A business that operates on spite is a very unprofessional business, and all their execs should be canned, if that's what they are doing.
As always, time will tell, but this is a huge move. By the way, I didn't get the email from eBay. I do believe I am on PWCC's email list as I receive email from them all the time.
I did buy one item from PWCC, but I believe it was the only one I ever bought from them. It was an large, ungraded lot of 1962 Jell-O cards. That is my number one collecting interest, so I went for it. I have bid on other items that they have for sale, but I always get outbid. Their items generally sell for higher prices than I am willing to pay.

Ebay has operated out of spite for almost their entire existence. Check out what they did to the ECommerceBytes folks.

They're successful despite their own seemingly constant sabotage, because they have a near monopoly on the type of service they provide...are very protective of it...have constantly instituted various forms of price hikes with very little push back...and do this while having to hold zero inventory of their own.

It's just software, servers, mediocre programmers and poorly paid customer service people. It's the type of overhead most companies would kill for, but a service nobody else can really provide. They really came along at the exact right time, for their type of business.

They don't care about shilling or fraud. If they did they would have announced a few very simple policy decisions along with their PWCC take down. They did not.

[1954 topps]

PWCC already has their own platform for selling and they've already established themselves as the largest auction house in the business. People will swarm to their site every auction like they always do because collectors be crazy. Regardless of shill bidding or not people will still buy from them in future auctions because they have it all. If you're worried about shill bidding just pick a max number in your head and don't go over it just like any other auction.

I believe eBay was already aware PWCC has intentions of leaving their platform soon as they've already tested having their own auctions. The fees are high and they can do it in-house for less. So they're mad and throwing them under the bus, probably for good reasons but about a decade late. Gee thanks eBay for trying to portray being the golden child here, you haven't been a partner in crime the whole time at all...bye ebay, you won't be missed. It's not that hard to run this business. Oh Hello Sirius and your weekly auctions!

I've bought from PWCC many times just like the next collector and will continue to do so because they have what I'm looking for. Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection.

Examine your cards carefully when you get them regardless of who you're buying from. PWCC or elsewhere, it's your money, you better know what you're getting.

[JeremyW]

Just a guess, but PWCC will lose a large portion of their consignments because they are no longer on Ebay.

[samosa4u]

This is wonderful news! I am so glad that PWCC is leaving eBay! I got sick and tired of looking at those f**king ridiculous Vault prices every single day!

Now, turn this shit up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gwj...AndTheGangVEVO

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by 1954 topps

PWCC already has their own platform for selling and they've already established themselves as the largest auction house in the business. People will swarm to their site every auction like they always do because collectors be crazy. Regardless of shill bidding or not people will still buy from them in future auctions because they have it all. If you're worried about shill bidding just pick a max number in your head and don't go over it just like any other auction.

I believe eBay was already aware PWCC has intentions of leaving their platform soon as they've already tested having their own auctions. The fees are high and they can do it in-house for less. So they're mad and throwing them under the bus, probably for good reasons but about a decade late. Gee thanks eBay for trying to portray being the golden child here, you haven't been a partner in crime the whole time at all...bye ebay, you won't be missed. It's not that hard to run this business. Oh Hello Sirius and your weekly auctions!

I've bought from PWCC many times just like the next collector and will continue to do so because they have what I'm looking for. Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection.

Examine your cards carefully when you get them regardless of who you're buying from. PWCC or elsewhere, it's your money, you better know what you're getting.

Good luck. Solid strategy.....lmao. Yeah, those big auction house auctions really have nothing in them for anyone it appears..... Why even subscribe if you feel that way?

Peace, Mike Papariello

PS Honestly....when you say this "Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection."
then people kinda just stop listening to you. Just sayin'