ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

Frankish · #1 08-20-2021, 07:36 PM

It's a shame that PWCC's own ebay auction business and other alleged behavior is conflated with the vault business. Personally, I think the vault was a great idea. The prices were (for me) reasonable and made holding mid and high end graded cards I was interested in selling at some point easy. The fees to sell through them and the absolute lack of hassle involved was unparalleled. If someone offered that service independently, I would be all over it.

Even the PWCC additional ratings for eye appeal and whatnot were, I think, a good innovation. And, if I'm honest, I tend to agree that most of their indicated cards were in fact very nice for the grade (if not under graded). That only speaks to false positives though. I have no idea how many potentially under-graded cards they passed over.

Anyway, I can't speak to or defend their own auction behavior or potential sales tax issues (it's not something I was ever involved with nor am I an expert in those areas by any stretch). But I do think the vault and the way it operated with ebay was a terrific idea, well-implemented and a good value for customers like me. It's a shame to lose that.

perezfan · #2 08-20-2021, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankish

It's a shame that PWCC's own ebay auction business and other alleged behavior is conflated with the vault business. Personally, I think the vault was a great idea. The prices were (for me) reasonable and made holding mid and high end graded cards I was interested in selling at some point easy. The fees to sell through them and the absolute lack of hassle involved was unparalleled. If someone offered that service independently, I would be all over it.

Even the PWCC additional ratings for eye appeal and whatnot were, I think, a good innovation. And, if I'm honest, I tend to agree that most of their indicated cards were in fact very nice for the grade (if not under graded). That only speaks to false positives though. I have no idea how many potentially under-graded cards they passed over.

Anyway, I can't speak to or defend their own auction behavior or potential sales tax issues (it's not something I was ever involved with nor am I an expert in those areas by any stretch). But I do think the vault and the way it operated with ebay was a terrific idea, well-implemented and a good value for customers like me. It's a shame to lose that.

Regarding the part in bold, while perhaps an "innovation", I would hardly call it a good one. BODA conclusively revealed that a huge percentage of those "nice for the grade" cards were "Moser Specials". And of those that were not linked to Moser, many were tainted by other known card doctors.

Any informed collector could see that those stickers served the same purpose as many well-known traffic signs, like "Stop", "Proceed with Caution", "Detour" or "Do Not Enter". Or perhaps my favorite... "Construction Zone".

Perhaps the use (or misuse) of those stickers should be classified as "Card Trafficking".

Peter_Spaeth · #3 08-20-2021, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Regarding the part in bold, while perhaps an "innovation", I would hardly call it a good one. BODA conclusively revealed that a huge percentage of those "nice for the grade" cards were "Moser Specials". And of those that were not linked to Moser, many were tainted by other known card doctors.

Any informed collector could see that those stickers served the same purpose as many well-known traffic signs, like "Stop", "Proceed with Caution", "Detour" or "Do Not Enter". Or perhaps my favorite... "Construction Zone".

Perhaps the use (or misuse) of those stickers should be classified as "Card Trafficking".

People just don't get it. It's remarkable to me that people are STILL supporting him, and excusing him, and explaining away obvious BS, and so forth. WTF

Imagine if he gets indicted.

Johnny630 · #4 08-20-2021, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People just don't get it. It's remarkable to me that people are STILL supporting him, and excusing him, and explaining away obvious BS, and so forth. WTF

Imagine if he gets indicted.

Maybe they will show up at sentencing as character witnesses.

Frankish · #5 08-20-2021, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People just don't get it. It's remarkable to me that people are STILL supporting him, and excusing him, and explaining away obvious BS, and so forth. WTF

Imagine if he gets indicted.

I guess we can't all be as smart as you.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 08-20-2021, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankish

I guess we can't all be as smart as you.

It has nothing to do with me. Just paying attention to the facts.

Frankish · #7 08-20-2021, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It has nothing to do with me. Just paying attention to the facts.

Like I said, wish we were all so intelligent. To see the signal for the noise. To be able to clearly delineate in black and white the entirety of an enterprise. I am truly impressed.

MattyC · #8 08-20-2021, 09:22 PM

If someone uses an auction house or consignment service to create a fake sale, and they complete the transaction so as to get the data point in the sales record, who is at fault� the person consigning and buying their card, or the company that lists the card and processes the transaction?

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