Exciting Ramly Discovery

[canjond]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the kind words.

Steve - this latest pack came out of Connecticut. So “Northeast” for sure.

Rocky - Ramly was a word play on the popular Ramleh cigarettes, which found its sales impacted enough they reportedly changed the name to Helmar.

[Eggoman]

Hey Jon:

GREAT bit of Sleuth-Work! Just thought that I'd add this scan for fun!!

[rjackson44]

Thanks man

[Leon]

Great work, Jon. You are my hero for cigarette packs!

Here is a postcard that goes with the subject.

[sb1]

I have studied that post card many, many times and today was the first time I saw the T. T. T. in the upper right corner.

[chriskim]

Found these pics. is this just a regular Ramly box? not sure what kind of info u can pull from these pics for your research.

This one has the green box but has the red box inside printing. Not sure this is just a common thing for those Ramly box that has 1910 tax stamp.

[BeanTown]

Super eye candy in this thread. Being a postcard guy, I have to say that Leon’s Postcard is off the charts cool. When you are ready to move it, please send it my way!!!

[sb1]

Another combination of the existing wrapper, the old box color, a 1910 stamp and the Cambyses text inside. So a new combination.

I think they may have been using existing box stock that they had as the Mentor Cigarette Packs were also a red box.

Originally Posted by chriskim

Found these pics. is this just a regular Ramly box? not sure what kind of info u can pull from these pics for your research.

This one has the green box but has the red box inside printing. Not sure this is just a common thing for those Ramly box that has 1910 tax stamp.

[sb1]

Jon,

Nice work....I guess it's best you ended up with the box, I never would have delved this deep.

Although there are very few instances of anyone finding T204's in a box, there are two that I am aware of.

A "find" purchased by another board member years back had the Ramly Turkish Cigarettes Mentor Co. black box as we have known before filled with T204 cards, there was literally no room side to side in the box, the smaller Cambyses box I don't believe would have been large enough to hold a card.(pic attached of cards in find box).

Further as I recall, the box from Leon's collection once housed a raw card that he got graded(box pic attached from Heritage Auction of his collection).

The very few newspaper ads promoting the Ball players pics in the packages that I found were July 1909, further tying together the black Mentor Co. labeled box front and the actual T204 cards. The large two known store displays are dated 1909 and one has two of the Ramly Turkish Mentor box fronts attached to it(owned by a board member), mine never had any boxes adorning it.(scans attached). I also found a Red Sox Score card from 1909 with an ad for the T204 cards(scan attached).

Another Ramly Turkish Cigarettes Mentor Co. box was also found with all 10 cigarettes AND the 1910 offer for the photogravure. The newspaper ads are all from 1910 for those. (Box and coupon with 1910 stamp attached).

It appears Timayenis and the later owners/execs. ran several different campaigns, 1909 was the introduction of the T204 cards as we know them, which was only advertised for a few short weeks, although they might have been offered the entire season. The images used for the set were all Carl Horner images, rotated ever so slightly. Given Timayenis' business acumen, chances are he pirated those and may have been called out on it by Horner and the card campaign shortened.

The 1910 campaign appears to be for the large photogravure, of which three are now known. They are on very fragile newsprint type stock and most would not have survived.

1912 we now know that Mentor Co./Cambyses promoted a Red Sox photo or premium of some type. It's entirely possible they did something in 1911 as well.

All that being said, I believe the card issue is confined to 1909, bolstered by the players and their respective teams. The new Red Cambyses box and ad for the 1912 Red Sox item certainly make for a premium/photo of some type to search for.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by canjond

Thanks guys. Appreciate the kind words.

Steve - this latest pack came out of Connecticut. So “Northeast” for sure.

Rocky - Ramly was a word play on the popular Ramleh cigarettes, which found its sales impacted enough they reportedly changed the name to Helmar.

I don't know if this was posted, but it seems that the switch from Ramleh to Helmar took place in late Summer of 1907:

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

What a great resource, thanks for taking the time to post. Now, where can I get some of these Ramly's for a reasonable price???

[Belfast1933]

DOH! Your post just cost me $$$... I was on the fence about buying my first-ever Ramly card and was ready to say no.

And then I read this post and it inspired/pushed me the other way! (at least I bought it from a Net54 Board Member!)

#meanttobe

[sb1]

For clarity Ramleh/Helmar and Ramly are two entirely different companies, in fact the two were in a law-suit also highlighted above, which Anargyros decided to simply turn Ramleh around and use Helmar to avoid the confusion of the two brands.

Only Ramly(Mentor Co.) produced and distributed the T204 cards, all of which are quite scarce when compared to other tobacco issues of the day.

I only find advertising for the card issue for about 3 weeks in 1909. I have a hunch and that is all it is, that they used the Horner images without permission and may have come under fire for that, although no court records seem to show any type of action. Timayenis was never afraid of litigation or to take shortcuts which gives me reason to suspect his unauthorized use of the Horner images. Whoever produced and/or printed them simply tilted each image a few degrees and removed the various team names.

[sb1]

more examples, you can compare to the players T204 card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by sb1

I only find advertising for the card issue for about 3 weeks in 1909.

Would you post the full ads with the paper they appeared in and the dates? One of them is in post 9 but without a paper/periodical name/source or date discernible. Those would be very cool to see in complete form. The ads can be as fun as the cards

[Corporal Lance Boil]

This is a wonderful thread. I ventured into my stash of Ramly stuff today to look at the box I have (One top, two bottoms). I need to look at the front again, because I was focused on the inside of the top, which is different from the ones posted. Also, both backs have no tax stamp, ripped off.
Also, there is writing on the side of the box, via a torn sticker, that I am interested in.