Gil Hodges

Aquarian Sports Cards · #1 12-05-2021, 10:32 AM

If you like Jim Rice in the HOF you shouldn't mind Norm Cash

Peter_Spaeth · #2 12-05-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you like Jim Rice in the HOF you shouldn't mind Norm Cash

Agree the case for Rice was weak, although he did have 8 AS appearances and an MVP -- Cash 4 and none.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #3 12-05-2021, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agree the case for Rice was weak, although he did have 8 AS appearances and an MVP -- Cash 4 and none.

But those aren't number based criteria those are opinion based. By the numbers Cash and Mantle were both better choices than Maris for MVP in 1961. All-Star is a popularity contest.

If you do care for those numbers Hodges had 8 all-stars and 3 Gold gloves (which only started near the end of his career)

Seven · #4 12-05-2021, 11:18 AM

I think Hodges resume, as a player, person and manager speak for itself and he should get into the Hall of Fame. The Hall isn't perfect, it's far from it. I think once the floodgates opened with the Veterans committee becoming a thing, the "Small Hall" Mentality went out the window.

Really the barometer for a player being Hall of Fame worthy, should be the his contributions to the game, and how well he performed. Some will also argue that a players character should be a part of that equation. I flip flop on this part, but I can't fault someone for not voting for a player who was a detestable person, just like I can't fault someone for voting for someone because he was a great man who contributed a great deal, both on and off the field.

With Hodges, I see a player that was robbed of three years because of the War, had he had those three years, I think statistically speaking his Hall of Fame case would have been much better around the first time he retired. I think him leading the Miracle Mets to their World Series title, adds to his resume as a baseball professional.

egri · #5 12-05-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

With Hodges, I see a player that was robbed of three years because of the War, had he had those three years, I think statistically speaking his Hall of Fame case would have been much better around the first time he retired.

There is another way the war hurt him; he started smoking while in the Marines, and that contributed to his heart attacks, including the fatal one.

Seven · #6 12-05-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

There is another way the war hurt him; he started smoking while in the Marines, and that contributed to his heart attacks, including the fatal one.

Tobacco was one of the few things that wasn't rationed I believe, I'm sure many people thought it would also take the edge off while out in the field. Shame how young he was when he died.

G1911 · #7 12-05-2021, 02:16 PM

Personally, I don�t see a good argument World War II shortened his playing career.

In 1943 he had 3 plate appearances in the majors.

He misses 1944-1946.

In 1947, he plays in 28 games and bats under .200 with a 44 OPS+

In 1948, he�s the starting first baseman and plays a full season. He hits .249 and has an OPS+ of 82, which is truly absolutely horrific for a starting first baseman.

I suppose we could say if he�d spent more time in the minors he would have developed faster, but this is making a lot of assumptions, all of them extremely generous to Hodges. WWII hurt a lot of guys careers, but Hodges isn�t a great case of them.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 12-05-2021, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

But those aren't number based criterion those are opinion based. By the numbers Cash and Mantle were both better choices than Maris for MVP in 1961. All-Star is a popularity contest.

If you do care for those numbers Hodges had 8 all-stars and 3 Gold gloves (which only started near the end of his career)

I wasn't justifying Rice, only comparing Rice to Cash. I don't mind Hodges at all, I just don't think he's a good case on the numbers.

jingram058 · #9 12-05-2021, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wasn't justifying Rice, only comparing Rice to Cash. I don't mind Hodges at all, I just don't think he's a good case on the numbers.

Put the numbers aside for a minute. If there ever was a case for why he never got in, surely it was his numbers as a player. But doesn't impact on the game, on the players, on the community make up for a .273 batting average? How did lesser-caliber players get in? I just hope he makes it this time. If he doesn't, in my mind, he likely never will.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 12-05-2021, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Put the numbers aside for a minute. If there ever was a case for why he never got in, surely it was his numbers as a player. But doesn't impact on the game, on the players, on the community make up for a .273 batting average? How did lesser-caliber players get in? I just hope he makes it this time. If he doesn't, in my mind, he likely never will.

Well, he's being voted on as a player, so it seems to me his numbers as a player are first and foremost what matter. I'm not sure how one values those intangibles.

Tabe · #11 12-06-2021, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well, he's being voted on as a player, so it seems to me his numbers as a player are first and foremost what matter. I'm not sure how one values those intangibles.

I think it would be more than a little naive to think that the committee ignored Hodges' accomplishments (though they're actually pretty lacking other than 1969) as a manager.

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