SGC no longer grading t206s?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

My guess is there is a typo in that email and that perhaps Brent was typing too fast an left out "blank back" or some prefix-statement to the phrase "T206's"

That said, its annoying if they are no longer slabbing blank backs. Not sure why they would stop; frankly, not sure how many unslabbed blank-backs are still out there. I

I still think they don't know WTF they are doing and have little confidence in them anymore. Dismal knowledge if you ask me.
.

[cammb]

Check out the video that SGC put out showing their grading process. The graders look fresh out of college. This is what's grading our cards. I have been saying fow awhile now that there is a prejudice against vintage while modern gets all of the high grades. I am sort of a hypocrite because I still will be using SGC because I really hate PSA.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by cammb

Check out the video that SGC put out showing their grading process. The graders look fresh out of college. This is what's grading our cards. I have been saying fow awhile now that there is a prejudice against vintage while modern gets all of the high grades. I am sort of a hypocrite because I still will be using SGC because I really hate PSA.

It’s not any different at PSA?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by cammb

...The graders look fresh out of college. This is what's grading our cards...

I'd be careful with passing judgment on someone simply because they're part of a particular age cohort. Our very own wazoo was born around the same time as those graders...and I would trust him to grade a T206 accurately.

[jchcollins]

I wouldn't be surprised at much of what they say or do anymore. SGC around the start of the bubble / pandemic tried to make a grab for market share based on new cards and new money. They left their legacy of being the small collector's vintage grader of choice behind. All the execs are young, and they want to be the next PSA. In the summer of 2020, I got valuable cards back slabbed with defective inserts that had plastic shards sticking into card edges. At that point, enough was enough. SGC slabs look great, and a properly graded vintage card from them is still (generally) a thing of beauty - but I'm done at this point.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'd be careful with passing judgment on someone simply because they're part of a particular age cohort. Our very own wazoo was born around the same time as those graders...and I would trust him to grade a T206 accurately.

Wow thanks Eric! Appreciate the kind words. Made my day

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'd be careful with passing judgment on someone simply because they're part of a particular age cohort. Our very own wazoo was born around the same time as those graders...and I would trust him to grade a T206 accurately.

I don’t know wazoo nor do I know anything about his expertise

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by cammb

I don’t know wazoo nor do I know anything about his expertise

I'm not picking on you or singling you out. However, our brief exchange reminded me of something. Pardon me for "thinking out loud" here.

With the recent influx of younger collectors into the hobby, it won't be long until there are large numbers of twenty-somethings with experience and expertise in vintage. Modern (and "ultra-modern") cards tend to be a gateway into older material. It stands to reason the boom of 2020 will lead to a significant increase in the amount of hobbyists who venture over to our side of the sandbox. If even a small fraction of these newcomers are in it for the long haul, it likely leads to at least two things:

1. A new generation of vintage collectors, which could theoretically keep the hobby going for decades
2. A new generation of experts on the horizon

Of course, this doesn't help SGC with T206 (or other vintage) cards right now. However, it does give me confidence in the long-term health of the vintage card market.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'm not picking on you or singling you out. However, our brief exchange reminded me of something. Pardon me for "thinking out loud" here.

With the recent influx of younger collectors into the hobby, it won't be long until there are large numbers of twenty-somethings with experience and expertise in vintage. Modern (and "ultra-modern") cards tend to be a gateway into older material. It stands to reason the boom of 2020 will lead to a significant increase in the amount of hobbyists who venture over to our side of the sandbox. If even a small fraction of these newcomers are in it for the long haul, it likely leads to at least two things:

1. A new generation of vintage collectors, which could theoretically keep the hobby going for decades
2. A new generation of experts on the horizon

Of course, this doesn't help SGC with T206 (or other vintage) cards right now. However, it does give me confidence in the long-term health of the vintage card market.

Totally agree with this. This is what got me to jump the fence from modern to vintage. Started at 12 — and still here!

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'm not picking on you or singling you out. However, our brief exchange reminded me of something. Pardon me for "thinking out loud" here.

With the recent influx of younger collectors into the hobby, it won't be long until there are large numbers of twenty-somethings with experience and expertise in vintage. Modern (and "ultra-modern") cards tend to be a gateway into older material. It stands to reason the boom of 2020 will lead to a significant increase in the amount of hobbyists who venture over to our side of the sandbox. If even a small fraction of these newcomers are in it for the long haul, it likely leads to at least two things:

1. A new generation of vintage collectors, which could theoretically keep the hobby going for decades
2. A new generation of experts on the horizon

Of course, this doesn't help SGC with T206 (or other vintage) cards right now. However, it does give me confidence in the long-term health of the vintage card market.

When SGC started their money grab, they put out a call for job openings, including “graders”. Since then I have noticed a deterioration in the grading of vintage. I know the difference from a NM card compared to a vgex. It seems these graders don’t. I doubt they are all collectors but people looking for jobs. What I saw in the video where young people doing the grading. That’s a fact ,with no disparage meant to their age

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by cammb

When SGC started their money grab, they put out a call for job openings, including “graders”. Since then I have noticed a deterioration in the grading of vintage. I know the difference from a NM card compared to a vgex. It seems these graders don’t. I doubt they are all collectors but people looking for jobs. What I saw in the video where young people doing the grading. That’s a fact ,with no disparage meant to their age

My experience was similar. Also almost overnight, they became centering fanatics. And apparently didn't teach the new graders how to compute centering ratios. A 90/10 card that's otherwise NM should be downgraded, yes, but a 70/30 card that's otherwise perfect shouldn't be a 5. I busted a few SGC slabs like this last year where I felt like even PSA would have given the cards 7's.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by cammb

When SGC started their money grab, they put out a call for job openings, including “graders”. Since then I have noticed a deterioration in the grading of vintage. I know the difference from a NM card compared to a vgex. It seems these graders don’t. I doubt they are all collectors but people looking for jobs. What I saw in the video where young people doing the grading. That’s a fact ,with no disparage meant to their age

I helped break out several dozen cards of freshly graded vintage material from SGC. Not a single card graded above a 6 and most were 5s and 5.5s. In the submission there were obvious VG+ to VG-EX cards with light wrinkles and noticeable corner wear and then cards that were wrinkle free, well centered that most would deem NM+ to NM-MT and those were in 5s and 5.5s.

Don't care if PSA is $150 per card, there is no point paying $30 per card to be crushed like that. For a buyer of that stuff it is a dream come true but not if you are the seller. Selling an under graded SGC card for top dollar is nearly impossible right now.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'm not picking on you or singling you out. However, our brief exchange reminded me of something. Pardon me for "thinking out loud" here.

With the recent influx of younger collectors into the hobby, it won't be long until there are large numbers of twenty-somethings with experience and expertise in vintage. Modern (and "ultra-modern") cards tend to be a gateway into older material. It stands to reason the boom of 2020 will lead to a significant increase in the amount of hobbyists who venture over to our side of the sandbox. If even a small fraction of these newcomers are in it for the long haul, it likely leads to at least two things:

1. A new generation of vintage collectors, which could theoretically keep the hobby going for decades
2. A new generation of experts on the horizon

Of course, this doesn't help SGC with T206 (or other vintage) cards right now. However, it does give me confidence in the long-term health of the vintage card market.

Is there a huge influx of younger collectors. Leon's recent poll does not seem to show that. I don't run into too many under 30's when looking through vintage at shows

[tschock]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Is there a huge influx of younger collectors. Leon's recent poll does not seem to show that. I don't run into too many under 30's when looking through vintage at shows

Hmmm, most of the collectors I see at shows are probably under 40 and many even younger. Though they might not be looking at vintage cards.... yet. A poll from within a group of predominantly vintage card collectors is not a good basis for predicting future collectors. It's just a snapshot of where we are and taken only from within a subset of a larger group. I'd be more concerned that younger collectors are not looking at baseball cards, but rather basketball or some other sport (or Pokemon).

It doesn't take a large percentage of card collectors to maintain interest in a small percentage of the card collecting realm (ie vintage). It's from the level of interest in baseball cards as a whole. The future is more related to whether they are into the cards or into the money that can be made as well as related to the level of interest in baseball in general. I do think that set collecting though for baseball cards will eventually go the way of the basketball card market, but I think that will also correlate to how baseball is being marketed.

Similar to other collecting areas (comics, books, records, dolls, cars, etc), people usually get introduced to current items. Those who continue to remain collectors usually work their way backwards.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Is there a huge influx of younger collectors...

Yes, I believe there has been. I also believe, for some of them, modern and ultra-modern cards will be a gateway into vintage.

Again, this doesn't help SGC with T206 (or other vintage) cards right now. However, it does give me confidence in the long-term health of the vintage card market.

With regard to the poll, it's not surprising. Net54 members are among the most knowledgeable vintage baseball card collectors on the planet. There are seasoned cardboard veterans here who have forgotten more than most people will ever learn. It stands to reason a majority of us are a bit long in the tooth.

It can be difficult to gain acceptance here. Hell, I've been around for almost ten years and I still feel like the new guy at times. To coin a phrase, this can be a "tough crowd" to newcomers.

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Is there a huge influx of younger collectors. Leon's recent poll does not seem to show that. I don't run into too many under 30's when looking through vintage at shows

While I'm sure the numbers are still overwhelmingly older collectors for vintage, I doubt that poll accurately reflects the current collector scene because most younger (under 30) collectors do not use traditional collector forums such as this one. They would most likely be using social media platforms such as Facebook and Instachat (and probably some other thing I dont even know about, ha) as their internet collecting meeting places of choice. I think net54 is probably off the radar of most younger collectors. And through the covid boom, we've seen a massive surge in young people entering the hobby, it only makes sense that some of them would gravitate toward vintage.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by cammb

I don’t know wazoo nor do I know anything about his expertise

I think that's kinda the point...

[wazoo]

Finally a thread about me! And it’s nice lol.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by cammb

Check out the video that SGC put out showing their grading process. The graders look fresh out of college. This is what's grading our cards. I have been saying fow awhile now that there is a prejudice against vintage while modern gets all of the high grades. I am sort of a hypocrite because I still will be using SGC because I really hate PSA.

What would you expect? It's not like they're paying $40/hr to get 35-year old white collar workers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cammb

Check out the video that SGC put out showing their grading process. The graders look fresh out of college. This is what's grading our cards. I have been saying fow awhile now that there is a prejudice against vintage while modern gets all of the high grades. I am sort of a hypocrite because I still will be using SGC because I really hate PSA.

Since most cards sell based on the flip, even with premiums for the high end of the grade in theory there should be some great opportunities out there. Sucks if you're submitting, is great if you're mostly a buyer.