Gil Hodges

Peter_Spaeth · #1 12-08-2021, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Rick Reuschel. Laugh first, then look up the numbers and get back to me.

Strange case, as memory serves his four Baseball Reference metrics are really mediocre but despite that he had a great WAR and I think may rank in the top 30 in WAR or maybe the combo WAR WAR7 metric. Ill check. Not sure what the disconnect is there. Reminds me a bit of Bobby Grich on the batter side. Hall of Stats, which apparently is now defunct, rated him very highly.

Yeah, check this out.
Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 7 (426), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 111 (231), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 49 (289), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 31 (155), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (32nd):
69.5 career WAR | 43.7 7yr-peak WAR | 56.6 JAWS | 56.4 S-JAWS | 4.3 WAR/16

So for the stat guys, how does this make sense? How can his overall ranking be SO much higher than any of his individual rankings which after all look at stats from a number of angles.

G1911 · #2 12-08-2021, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Strange case, as memory serves his four Baseball Reference metrics are really mediocre but despite that he had a great WAR and I think may rank in the top 30 in WAR or maybe the combo WAR WAR7 metric. Ill check. Not sure what the disconnect is there. Reminds me a bit of Bobby Grich on the batter side. Hall of Stats, which apparently is now defunct, rated him very highly.

Yeah, check this out.
Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 7 (426), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 111 (231), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 49 (289), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 31 (155), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (32nd):
69.5 career WAR | 43.7 7yr-peak WAR | 56.6 JAWS | 56.4 S-JAWS | 4.3 WAR/16

So for the stat guys, how does this make sense? How can his overall ranking be SO much higher than any of his individual rankings which after all look at stats from a number of angles.

Because these stats (black ink, grey ink, hall monitor, hall stabdards) look at players who were at top of the league, comparing them effectively to the best of their times or all time. WAR ranks them effectively compared to the absolute worst of the league, not even to league average but over a fantasy �replacement player�. Personally, I think Reuschel�s non WAR stats are a much more accurate picture. I�m not with the new math on Grich either, though he was a little underrated.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 12-08-2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Because these stats (black ink, grey ink, hall monitor, hall stabdards) look at players who were at top of the league, comparing them effectively to the best of their times or all time. WAR ranks them effectively compared to the absolute worst of the league, not even to league average but over a fantasy �replacement player�. Personally, I think Reuschel�s non WAR stats are a much more accurate picture. I�m not with the new math on Grich either, though he was a little underrated.

Pretty unusual disparity though, wouldn't you say? I don't think I've ever seen a player who was so Jekyll and Hyde on the two sets of metrics.

G1911 · #4 12-08-2021, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pretty unusual disparity though, wouldn't you say? I don't think I've ever seen a player who was so Jekyll and Hyde on the two sets of metrics.

Resuschel seems like the kind of guy fit for such a gap. You need someone who was never that big of a producer, but with a lengthy career and a long time of being pretty good.

Sal Bando is another guy like this. 61 WAR, 53 JAWS. Pretty darn bad for such a guy in the 4 hall statistics. Robin Ventura too. The aforementioned Grich as well. Personally, I think the traditional stats paint a more accurate picture of them, once adjusted for context. All fine players, but not what Jaws suggests.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 12-08-2021, 08:06 PM

Guess who.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Batting - 4 (532), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 38 (821), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 7 (1622), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 30 (342), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Catcher (13th):
46.8 career WAR | 35.0 7yr-peak WAR | 40.9 JAWS | 4.9 WAR/162
Average HOF C (out of 16):
53.8 career WAR | 34.8 7yr-peak WAR | 44.3 JAWS | 4.7 WAR/162

G1911 · #6 12-08-2021, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Guess who.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Batting - 4 (532), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 38 (821), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 7 (1622), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 30 (342), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Catcher (13th):
46.8 career WAR | 35.0 7yr-peak WAR | 40.9 JAWS | 4.9 WAR/162
Average HOF C (out of 16):
53.8 career WAR | 34.8 7yr-peak WAR | 44.3 JAWS | 4.7 WAR/162

A catcher WAR loves and traditional stats don�t and scored bad on the Hall stats - Gene Tenace? Is he really that high in the catcher list foe JAWS? Great example

Peter_Spaeth · #7 12-08-2021, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

A catcher WAR loves and traditional stats don�t and scored bad on the Hall stats - Gene Tenace? Is he really that high in the catcher list foe JAWS? Great example

Yep.

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