Hey, pennant guys

perezfan · #1 02-27-2022, 02:44 PM

Nice pickups Gary!

Domer05 · #2 02-28-2022, 10:17 PM

I think I found a picture of Marc's college bedroom online....

The Gibson Girls were a nice touch, Marc!

bocca001 · #3 03-01-2022, 07:49 AM

How did you know that I went to Girl's High?

Lots of cool stuff in the pic. I've never seen the Santa Clara pennant on the wall, or the blanket on the bed. Would love to find them. There is also a Santa Clara vs. St. Mary's football program on the back wall, also from 1909.

bocca001 · #4 03-02-2022, 08:44 AM

The top Giants pennant is one of the first ones I purchased when I started collecting pennants. Every time I see one of these come up for auction, I never even really bother to look at it, because I already have it. I noticed the bottom one on ebay a few weeks ago. It has much better graphics (you can actually see facial features), so I bought it.

I wonder if the better graphics have to do with the nicer one using better materials, or if the screens actually get worn over time (like a sculpture mold) and lose detail?

thetahat · #5 03-03-2022, 08:56 AM

Nice. But they seem to be different screens. Look at the top of the bridge.

bocca001 · #6 03-03-2022, 01:24 PM

You must have been really good at where's Waldo

Everything else about the pennant is so similar. I suppose the screen was copied at some point? And lost some detail? Everything else in the image lost definition, but that piece at the top pf the bridge is simply gone.

Here are three slightly different versions I picked up this past month. Yes, I'm that bored, waiting for something really cool to show up.

ooo-ribay · #7 03-03-2022, 02:46 PM

^^^^ So, who made these pennants? I can keep track.

thetahat · #8 03-03-2022, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

You must have been really good at where's Waldo

Everything else about the pennant is so similar. I suppose the screen was copied at some point? And lost some detail? Everything else in the image lost definition, but that piece at the top pf the bridge is simply gone.

Here are three slightly different versions I picked up this past month. Yes, I'm that bored, waiting for something really cool to show up.

Even the panel underneath is different � one has four openings the other has six

ooo-ribay · #9 03-04-2022, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

You must have been really good at where's Waldo

Greg also kills it on those "find the six differences" things!

Seriously, great observations, Greg. My feeling (which just developed yesterday) is that the poor definition pennants are not Ad Flags, but a rip-off by some other company. Maybe the inferior screen printer changed the bridge just to cover his ass? Domer might be able to chime in on this.

Here's my orange on black and black on orange examples...

vintagesportscollector · #10 03-27-2022, 01:02 PM

Is anyone familiar with this maker? It is a label on a large oversized 1915 pennant. I am curious if they were a small local maker or if they produced more broadly or became known under a different name.

Thanks
Joe

Domer05 · #11 03-27-2022, 11:50 PM

Joe,

I'm not familiar with any maker d/b/a "College Flag Co." However, I am familiar with two pennant makers located in Columbus, OH doing business in the mid-1910s: Ohio Pennant Co. and H.A. Morgan Co. See below examples.

As concerns the latter company's label ... it sure resembles yours, doesn't it?? Same font. Both say, "COLUMBUS, O" which strikes me as kind of unique.

Maybe Mr. Morgan sold the business by 1915, and the new owner adopted your name? Hard to imagine there being three pennant makers in one college town....

ooo-ribay · #12 03-28-2022, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe,

I'm not familiar with any maker d/b/a "College Flag Co." However, I am familiar with two pennant makers located in Columbus, OH doing business in the mid-1910s: Ohio Pennant Co. and H.A. Morgan Co. See below examples.

As concerns the latter company's label ... it sure resembles yours, doesn't it?? Same font. Both say, "COLUMBUS, O" which strikes me as kind of unique.

Maybe Mr. Morgan sold the business by 1915, and the new owner adopted your name? Hard to imagine there being three pennant makers in one college town....

I think that theory has merit. I knew Domer wouldn�t let us down!

vintagesportscollector · #13 03-28-2022, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe,

I'm not familiar with any maker d/b/a "College Flag Co." However, I am familiar with two pennant makers located in Columbus, OH doing business in the mid-1910s: Ohio Pennant Co. and H.A. Morgan Co. See below examples.

As concerns the latter company's label ... it sure resembles yours, doesn't it?? Same font. Both say, "COLUMBUS, O" which strikes me as kind of unique.

Maybe Mr. Morgan sold the business by 1915, and the new owner adopted your name? Hard to imagine there being three pennant makers in one college town....

Thanks Domer! I think that makes sense.

perezfan · #14 03-31-2022, 08:16 PM

And you thought there were no more bargains on ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480930442...cAAOSwxk5iRiRN

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480928266...UAAOSwXA5iRh7T

ooo-ribay · #15 04-01-2022, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

And you thought there were no more bargains on ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480930442...cAAOSwxk5iRiRN

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480928266...UAAOSwXA5iRh7T

That Cardinals pennant must have been a stunner, when brand new! 1950�s?

vintagesportscollector · #16 04-03-2022, 09:36 AM

Hey pennant guys -

- has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

ooo-ribay · #17 04-03-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Hey pennant guys -

- has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

Although I have no theories, that�s a cool pennant. What is the �CO� the beginning of?

BTW - that guy�s dog walks like mine (behind the back)

thetahat · #18 04-03-2022, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Hey pennant guys -

- has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

If it was a Cornell pennant, I�d guess that it was the then-University President or something.

vintagesportscollector · #19 04-03-2022, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

If it was a Cornell pennant, I�d guess that it was the then-University President or something.

Yes, it's a Cornell pennant. Thanks, that's an interesting theory about depicting the President, but it really bears no resemblance to then President J.G. Schurman who was slightly more distinguished looking

, and as far as I know was not known to walk with a cane or a dog

. But that's a good idea...possibly it resembles another known university 'character' or leader of the time - I'll research further.

thetahat · #20 04-03-2022, 02:05 PM

Try contacting the University with this link

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/...rtifactsandart

� or try Alumni Relations. My guess is that they will be helpful and interested. Keep us posted!

Domer05 · #21 04-03-2022, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Hey pennant guys -

- has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

Joe, I've never seen this artwork elsewhere on a pennant.

Around the turn of the century wholesale manufacturers would distribute a catalogue, and inside there'd be dozens of different pennant styles and corresponding style numbers. You just told them what school name you wanted the product to read; and, you picked from 3-4 fonts. By the mid-1910s, most makers had a library of sorts containing generic artwork the customer could select from, e.g., football running back, baseball pitcher, lacrosse player. In some cases, these catalogues even included felt color samples the customer could pick from.

By the 1950s, colleges adopted mascots, and pennant makers began offering their customers an even greater library of generic artwork featuring bears, tigers, you name it.

Many makers boasted about their "art departments," and even accepted crude schematics of what you wanted their artist to make. It's possible your artwork was the product of such a request. But, the bull dog kind of looks mascot-like, so I'm wondering if this wasn't just some off the shelf artwork from Chipenco's library someone at Cornell's bookstore thought looked cute?

Note that this artwork was not screen printed, like many of Chipenco's competitors of the day had begun doing. I suspect Chipenco had not yet developed a patent or license to use this new production method by the mid-1910s, when this was made. They weren't alone. To get around this problem, Chipenco had to use burnt leather appliques or else utilize the relief/letterpress method (rubber stamp on white felt) to make detailed university seals or illustrations.

By the way, Joe's website (www.iyellcornell.com) is worth visiting if you haven't yet done so. There's even a section dedicated to (Cornell) pennants!

thetahat · #22 04-04-2022, 05:33 AM

The “burnt leather” logos are super cool, like this one (not mine) which I consider the “holy grail”.

ooo-ribay · #23 04-04-2022, 07:05 AM

Joe said his pennant is �not related to Cornell.�

I�m confused.

vintagesportscollector · #24 04-04-2022, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Joe said his pennant is �not related to Cornell.�

I�m confused.

Sorry Rob, I meant the Emblem of an old man and a dog is not related to Cornell - that is the mystery. Typically I would see a football or baseball player, or other sport, or if after 1915, the Cornell bear mascot. This is so unique and unrelated, hence wondering where it came from.

Huck · #25 04-07-2022, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

The �burnt leather� logos are super cool, like this one (not mine) which I consider the �holy grail�.

That is a nice looking pennant. What year was the pennant produced?

Thank you.

vintagesportscollector · #26 04-04-2022, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe, I've never seen this artwork elsewhere on a pennant....

Many makers boasted about their "art departments," and even accepted crude schematics of what you wanted their artist to make. It's possible your artwork was the product of such a request. But, the bull dog kind of looks mascot-like, so I'm wondering if this wasn't just some off the shelf artwork from Chipenco's library someone at Cornell's bookstore thought looked cute?....

Thanks Domer. Extremely helpful information and food for thought. Whether this was off the shelf artwork, or a custom art department creation, is the fun mystery. I have a lot of catalogues and store interior images and photographs of the various local bookstores and shops and retailers, showing what they offered at the time. I have also collected a lot of dorm room photos from the period. I haven't found any examples like this.

I see your point about the bull-dog kind of looking mascot like, and had a similar thought - however, what seems to stand out more is the old hipster looking dude with the blunt.

If it was off the shelf, it seems pretty obscure and seldom requested. Looking through many class books from the time, one can see that Clubs, Societies and various Smoker and social events were a prominent part of campus life. Lots of great student images of smoking and dogs, and various 'stunts'. I am also wondering if this was a one time order for a Society.

Fballguy · #27 04-04-2022, 11:20 AM

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

ooo-ribay · #28 04-04-2022, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

I'm beginning to hate the Post Office. I wasted an hour and a half of my life, last Friday, trying to submit an online claim. Every time I got to "submit" I got a message "Error 413 - Entity too large" I finally gave up and am waiting on a claim form through the mail.

UKCardGuy · #29 04-04-2022, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

The thread's been quiet for ages and boom in 24 hours it's busier than Time Square.

Love the 49ers pennant Marc. Personally, I think the tassels that you've added make a big difference.

I might be the only one, but I like getting "loosely rolled" pennants. Especially when they're done properly. One auction house that I've used a few times, uses a thick cardboard tube to roll the pennants around and then wraps the rolled pennant(s) in plastic film. It arrives safe and sound every time, is much easier to ship and doesn't get beaten to hell by USPS or Fedex.

Duluth Eskimo · #30 04-07-2022, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

I just had to deal with this and figured we should brainstorm ideas. Unfortunately I think loosely rolling is the only solution. If anyone has any other suggestions I�m all ears. J

Domer05 · #31 04-05-2022, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

I have a lot of catalogues and store interior images and photographs of the various local bookstores and shops and retailers, showing what they offered at the time. I have also collected a lot of dorm room photos from the period.

Joe, if you've got old B/W photos of pennants in action, I think you should post'em

Cornell had to have some of the best pennants ever made in the early 20th century. They were like the Detroit Tigers of the collegiate pennant market!

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