Gun ownership poll

Carter08 · #1 06-13-2022, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Gun in the hands of a bad guy kill kids.
Gun in the hands of a good guy stops the bad guy and saves kids.

Simpletons think the gun is the problem when guns are the problem AND the solution. More accurately, guns themselves are neither good nor bad; they are tools.

They are tools. Saying the gun alone is not the problem is a straw man argument. Literally no one thinks guns are inherently evil and will do damage on their own. I�ll take my chances against someone with a hammer, a bat, etc. The guy in Vegas was not chucking those things out of the window and if he was that wouldn�t be such a big deal.

If you�re against giving anything up, I guess we need to do what we can always do. Impose a tax and make guns or bullets prohibitively expensive. Chris Rock said $5k a bullet would ensure they are used more wisely. Starting to agree.

I�m at least on board with a training commitment from gun purchasers. As soon as I have faith that a gun owner is responsible I�d be more comfortable with them out there. As it stands, the bad guys with a gun seem to be winning against the good guys with a gun.

irv · #2 06-13-2022, 02:57 PM

How many instances of defensive gun use are there each year?
The number of DGUs, as these incidents are commonly known, is hard to pin down. Law enforcement agencies don�t typically classify DGUs as a standalone category. The FBI tracks justifiable homicides, but states aren�t required to submit those figures, so the data is incomplete. And the FBI figures omit defensive assaults, in which someone fights off an attack, and brandishing's.

According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that�s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/def...uys-with-guns/

G1911 · #3 06-13-2022, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

How many instances of defensive gun use are there each year?
The number of DGUs, as these incidents are commonly known, is hard to pin down. Law enforcement agencies don�t typically classify DGUs as a standalone category. The FBI tracks justifiable homicides, but states aren�t required to submit those figures, so the data is incomplete. And the FBI figures omit defensive assaults, in which someone fights off an attack, and brandishing's.

According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that�s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/def...uys-with-guns/

And many never make it into the stats, as many such incidents are never reported. Most legal drawings of a gun do not require it�s discharge. Home intruders tend to just stop and leave when confronted with a gun.

irv · #4 06-13-2022, 03:08 PM

Its amazing how little media coverage this story got.
Why is that, I wonder? Does it not fit a certain narrative and fall in line with their virtue signaling about gun control?

Alabama school resource officer kills man trying to enter school
Man tried to break into elementary school, police said.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/al...o-enter-school

Carter08 · #5 06-13-2022, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

Its amazing how little media coverage this story got.
Why is that, I wonder? Does it not fit a certain narrative and fall in line with their virtue signaling about gun control?

Alabama school resource officer kills man trying to enter school
Man tried to break into elementary school, police said.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/al...o-enter-school

Link doesn�t work. Neither does a retiree with a gun against a whacko with a semi for the most part.

G1911 · #6 06-13-2022, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Link doesn�t work. Neither does a retiree with a gun against a whacko with a semi for the most part.

There are many such incidents of citizens using their guns to stop criminals. This is just be. How about Stephen Willeford for one?

Carter08 · #7 06-13-2022, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

There are many such incidents of citizens using their guns to stop criminals. This is just be. How about Stephen Willeford for one?

So the solution to whackos with guns is just to have more good guys with guns? I think making that your position with no room to bend is going to result in what you fear - legislation taking away a lot of your rights and criminalizing things you already own.

G1911 · #8 06-13-2022, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

So the solution to whackos with guns is just to have more good guys with guns? I think making that your position with no room to bend is going to result in what you fear - legislation taking away a lot of your rights and criminalizing things you already own.

The gun control demands of late in this thread are to ban pretty much all post-civil war technology. �No room to bend� is not exactly inaccurate for me, but be fair. The gun control advocates here are proposing things that are not bends but huge bans of almost all common firearms (or in your case, taxing them so heavily 99.999% can�t afford it to be a de facto ban). This isn�t a bend. You know that.

But okay. Let�s say we ban guns and there are not good guys with guns anymore.

When a criminal who doesn�t care about the law stages a massacre, how will they possibly be stopped? There�s no good guy with a gun to shoot them, as these normally end now. So what happens?

The next time I experience an attempted home invasion from multiple men, what am I supposed to do? Fight them with a knife? Call the cops to show up and clean up my corpse in 15 minutes? Shrug and go back to bed and hope my family is still alive in the morning?

irv · #9 06-13-2022, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Link doesn�t work. Neither does a retiree with a gun against a whacko with a semi for the most part.

Something went right in this case, didn't it?
Fixed: https://torontosun.com/news/world/al...o-enter-school

irv · #10 06-13-2022, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

And many never make it into the stats, as many such incidents are never reported. Most legal drawings of a gun do not require it�s discharge. Home intruders tend to just stop and leave when confronted with a gun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

There are many such incidents of citizens using their guns to stop criminals. This is just be. How about Stephen Willeford for one?

https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...ves-and-others

G1911 · #11 06-13-2022, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...ves-and-others

The very first one in this article happened very close to me, in a far left state. Even here there are many of us who have used a firearm, legally, to defend ourselves or families. Usually it doesn�t need to be fired.

I bet he�s glad he wasn�t restricted to having a 5 shot or less single action revolver from 1873.

cgjackson222 · #12 06-13-2022, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...ves-and-others

I'm sorry, but you just produced a list showing 12 times gun owners did something with a gun to thwart a crime. That's not a lot.

May I refer you to the FBI report studying active shooters from 2000-2013 that showed that of the 160 active shooter incidents:https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fbi...oter-incidents

In 5 incidents (3.1%), the shooting ended after armed individuals who were not law enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters. In these incidents, 3 shooters were killed, 1 was wounded, and 1 committed suicide.
The individuals involved in these shootings included a citizen with a valid firearms
permit and armed security guards at a church, an airline counter, a federally
managed museum, and a school board meeting.

In 2 incidents (1.3%), 2 armed, off-duty police officers engaged the shooters, resulting in the death of the shooters. In 1 of those incidents, the off-duty officer assisted a responding officer to end the threat.

Again, not good odds.

G1911 · #13 06-13-2022, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

They are tools. Saying the gun alone is not the problem is a straw man argument. Literally no one thinks guns are inherently evil and will do damage on their own. I�ll take my chances against someone with a hammer, a bat, etc. The guy in Vegas was not chucking those things out of the window and if he was that wouldn�t be such a big deal.

If you�re against giving anything up, I guess we need to do what we can always do. Impose a tax and make guns or bullets prohibitively expensive. Chris Rock said $5k a bullet would ensure they are used more wisely. Starting to agree.

I�m at least on board with a training commitment from gun purchasers. As soon as I have faith that a gun owner is responsible I�d be more comfortable with them out there. As it stands, the bad guys with a gun seem to be winning against the good guys with a gun.

Yet all of the proposed bans are acting as if the tool is sentient and punish normal people, not actual perpetrators of crime.

Whoever has a majority block should just tax at 10000% anything the other side does that they don�t like. Great idea. Anyone support a 10000% tax rate on any tool that be used to communicate your first amendment rights?

Even left-wing courts are not going to uphold an effective 10000% tax on constitutional rights. This is lunacy.

Carter08 · #14 06-13-2022, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Yet all of the proposed bans are acting as if the tool is sentient and punish normal people, not actual perpetrators of crime.

Whoever has a majority block should just tax at 10000% anything the other side does that they don�t like. Great idea. Anyone support a 10000% tax rate on any tool that be used to communicate your first amendment rights?

Even left-wing courts are not going to uphold an effective 10000% tax on constitutional rights. This is lunacy.

Speech is free. Guns and bullets are bought and sold. They can and are taxed all the time.

G1911 · #15 06-13-2022, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Speech is free. Guns and bullets are bought and sold. They can and are taxed all the time.

There is not a federal tax when you buy a box of ammo Good luck with a special 10000% tax on it. I�m sure the courts will uphold it.

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