Gun ownership poll

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

There are many such incidents of citizens using their guns to stop criminals. This is just be. How about Stephen Willeford for one?

So the solution to whackos with guns is just to have more good guys with guns? I think making that your position with no room to bend is going to result in what you fear - legislation taking away a lot of your rights and criminalizing things you already own.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Carter08

So the solution to whackos with guns is just to have more good guys with guns? I think making that your position with no room to bend is going to result in what you fear - legislation taking away a lot of your rights and criminalizing things you already own.

The gun control demands of late in this thread are to ban pretty much all post-civil war technology. “No room to bend” is not exactly inaccurate for me, but be fair. The gun control advocates here are proposing things that are not bends but huge bans of almost all common firearms (or in your case, taxing them so heavily 99.999% can’t afford it to be a de facto ban). This isn’t a bend. You know that.

But okay. Let’s say we ban guns and there are not good guys with guns anymore.

When a criminal who doesn’t care about the law stages a massacre, how will they possibly be stopped? There’s no good guy with a gun to shoot them, as these normally end now. So what happens?

The next time I experience an attempted home invasion from multiple men, what am I supposed to do? Fight them with a knife? Call the cops to show up and clean up my corpse in 15 minutes? Shrug and go back to bed and hope my family is still alive in the morning?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

The gun control demands of late in this thread are to ban pretty much all post-civil war technology. “No room to bend” is not exactly inaccurate for me, but be fair. The gun control advocates here are proposing things that are not bends but huge bans of almost all common firearms (or in your case, taxing them so heavily 99.999% can’t afford it to be a de facto ban). This isn’t a bend. You know that.

But okay. Let’s say we ban guns and there are not good guys with guns anymore.

When a criminal who doesn’t care about the law stages a massacre, how will they possibly be stopped? There’s no good guy with a gun to shoot them, as these normally end now. So what happens?

The next time I experience an attempted home invasion from multiple men, what am I supposed to do? Fight them with a knife? Call the cops to show up and clean up my corpse in 15 minutes? Shrug and go back to bed and hope my family is still alive in the morning?

You defending your family at home given the number of guns out that there can be acquired by bad folks is 1 million percent something that has to be taken into consideration. I don’t want to take that away from you. I want to change something because what we’re doing is not working. What the exact changes are I don’t know and I’ve said before I think it has to come from smart gun owners to come up with a better path forward. The better path being more guns is not workable for me or many likeminded folks.

The main issue with trying to advance this forward seems to be but that’s not perfect because what about this or that. Well, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Carter08

You defending your family at home given the number of guns out that there can be acquired by bad folks is 1 million percent something that has to be taken into consideration. I don’t want to take that away from you. I want to change something because what we’re doing is not working. What the exact changes are I don’t know and I’ve said before I think it has to come from smart gun owners to come up with a better path forward. The better path being more guns is not workable for me or many likeminded folks.

Charging me $5,000 a bullet quite literally does take it away from me though. Only billionaires can possibly train responsibly following your tax plan. Banning pretty much everything from post-Civil War technology does take it away from me. That is exactly what is being proposed. Taking them away from normal citizens does not remove them from criminals (it is already another felony for them to possess arms, to use them in the commission of a crime, and to murder people with any tool).

Originally Posted by Carter08

The main issue with trying to advance this forward seems to be but that’s not perfect because what about this or that. Well, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Criticizing these huge bans is not highlighting an imperfection. We aren't nitpicking on little details; the last sequence of demands in this thread are rolling technology back over a century and either criminalizing pretty much all gun owners or instituting a tax that is a de facto ban on private arms ownership entirely. These aren't imperfections or nitpicking. Of course gun owners are not going to support criminalizing half the nation and stripping the Bill of Rights away. I'm not looking for perfect; I'm pro-gun because I don't believe perfect is an achievable goal. There are always going to be psycho's and criminals; 100% of humanity is not going to gather around the campfire and sing kumbaya together. I wish I didn't need a gun for anything besides sport use. However, I live in the real world, not a fantasy land, and in the real world people do (and have) attempted to invade my home (and millions of others), or try to massacre innocent children. Criminalizing half of us doesn't address this at all. These people are criminals because they don't care about the law and will break it. Huge bans like this don't address the problem.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

Charging me $5,000 a bullet quite literally does take it away from me though. Only billionaires can possibly train responsibly following your tax plan. Banning pretty much everything from post-Civil War technology does take it away from me. That is exactly what is being proposed. Taking them away from normal citizens does not remove them from criminals (it is already another felony for them to possess arms, to use them in the commission of a crime, and to murder people with any tool).



Criticizing these huge bans is not highlighting an imperfection. We aren't nitpicking on little details; the last sequence of demands in this thread are rolling technology back over a century and either criminalizing pretty much all gun owners or instituting a tax that is a de facto ban on private arms ownership entirely. These aren't imperfections or nitpicking. Of course gun owners are not going to support criminalizing half the nation and stripping the Bill of Rights away. I'm not looking for perfect; I'm pro-gun because I don't believe perfect is an achievable goal. There are always going to be psycho's and criminals; 100% of humanity is not going to gather around the campfire and sing kumbaya together. I wish I didn't need a gun for anything besides sport use. However, I live in the real world, not a fantasy land, and in the real world people do (and have) attempted to invade my home (and millions of others), or try to massacre innocent children. Criminalizing half of us doesn't address this at all. These people are criminals because they don't care about the law and will break it. Huge bans like this don't address the problem.

Ok, so what do you think would be good? Goal is to reduce mass shootings. Give me something. Again, besides good guy with a gun theory…

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Ok, so what do you think would be good? Goal is to reduce mass shootings. Give me something. Again, besides good guy with a gun theory…

I have several times already discussed mental health measures.

You are asking to me propose only some kind of gun ban and removing any pro-gun or non-gun control option. Criminals do not follow the law. No gun ban disarms psycho's, gang members, and other violent criminals. No law that is passed is going to disarm them to then reduce mass shootings.

I do not support a ban. I do not think there is any rational reason to believe criminals will follow this gun ban for some magical reason.

Address the actually guilty. Address why people do this. Stop blaming 50% of America.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have several times already discussed mental health measures.

You are asking to me propose only some kind of gun ban and removing any pro-gun or non-gun control option. Criminals do not follow the law. No gun ban disarms psycho's, gang members, and other violent criminals. No law that is passed is going to disarm them to then reduce mass shootings.

I do not support a ban. I do not think there is any rational reason to believe criminals will follow this gun ban for some magical reason.

Address the actually guilty. Address why people do this. Stop blaming 50% of America.

Right, this is just our impasse and that’s ok. I want some types of guns to be banned or harder to buy. I don’t think fixing mental health is the answer, although it’s obviously a goal.