National should be really interesting

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bounce

This type of thread surfaces every year. I've got news for everyone as it relates to nice looking vintage, and it's not really news - the majority of it is owned by people who don't have to sell it.

Let me say that again - the majority of nice looking vintage is owned by people who don't have to sell it. The true "diamond hands" in this hobby tend to own this stuff, and it is the absolute last thing they would ever sell unless they got their price. I don't discount this stuff at shows (because there's also so few other dealers who have much of it).

Any of us who are waiting on the "crash" in the prices of these cards is going to continue to be waiting...and waiting and waiting and waiting. Year after year we keep hoping and praying for these cards to decline, and year after year they get a little more expensive. It's frustrating for sure, but it's reality. If you're approaching this National thinking this stuff should be or could be "on sale", and that those dealers are going to be desperate for cash, you're going to be worse than disappointed.

Also, some of these "modern" kids have started dabbling in vintage, as many are hitting that timeline in their collecting journey when they've discovered that there are some very interesting and historic players that are worthy of collecting. That's keeping the demand side quite high, and as modern continues to have issues I suspect there will continue to be some transfer of funds toward vintage. It just makes sense.

So what to do? Make shorter lists of cards you really want, and be prepared to pay going rate to get them. Be patient, search out the card that really is the one for you and be ready to grab it, if it makes sense and you can afford it. If not, pick something else - there's always something else to collect.

Carry on.

I am not sure what cards or issues you are referring to when you write nice looking vintage--that is pretty vague but I think we are all seeing nice looking as well as not so nice looking vintage as coming down in price. Whether or not any dealer who is in possession of this type of stuff needs to sell or not, if they want to sell, they might not get their price unless their price reflects the adjustment we are seeing pretty much across the board.

Everyone who attends a National (as a buyer or as a seller) is anticipating and intending to do business. It is a lot of effort to simply go to set up and show off your stuff. That can be done without leaving your home or office.

[Tony Gordon]

Looking forward to the National. I have attended most of the Chicago shows but this will be my first in Atlantic City. I sell online and at local shows and have always found that the National is the easiest place to sell cards, regardless of what is going on with the economy or the hobby. The National is a unique event and is always a good time. If you don't like card shows and crowds, the National is not the place for you. If you love card shows and don't mind crowds, the National is heaven on Earth. I absolutely love it. Though, you guys have me a little worried about the food...

[Johnny630]

I would guess for a regular booth at the National for the week is 1400-1500 bucks plus add on meal lodging for the week and travel. I estimate a easy 3,000k before your sell one card. I don’t know to many dealers who are just going to come for show and not expect to make money…idk anymore lol

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would guess for a regular booth at the National for the week is 1400-1500 bucks plus add on meal lodging for the week and travel. I estimate a easy 3,000k before your sell one card. I don’t know to many dealers who are just going to come for show and not expect to make money…idk anymore lol

All of which is written off.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

All of which is written off.

"Written Off" does not equal free it just let's you deduct a business expense.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

"Written Off" does not equal free it just let's you deduct a business expense.

Correct...but it helps.

[Steve_NY]

Johnny,

Really good estimate -- but $3,000 covers the booth cost, the hotel and travel costs. Gas prices will increase all of our costs this year. I figure all of the other costs such as meals every day add to another $500 - $1,000. If I work hard every day, which I do, I want to have a good dinner every night, and I am paying for two. So I have to do at least $3,000 - $4,000 before I make a penny. But I only set up at one show a year, so I try to make the best of it and hopefully I make enough to keep me happy until the next National.

Steve_NY
DynamicTwo@Aol.com

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

All of which is written off.

Written off can we please not take this one to taxes, lol to many post seem to go that way, lol. We still love you Bob C However this one, my observations, is strictly about the dealers initial upfront expenses.

All I’m saying is this is an easy 3k off the bat for the dealer, he has to figure this in to his prices and profit margins before one customer walks the floor. That would be my goal to at least make that back day one if I was set up as a dealer at one of these Nationals. Idk

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Looking forward to the National. I have attended most of the Chicago shows but this will be my first in Atlantic City. I sell online and at local shows and have always found that the National is the easiest place to sell cards, regardless of what is going on with the economy or the hobby. The National is a unique event and is always a good time. If you don't like card shows and crowds, the National is not the place for you. If you love card shows and don't mind crowds, the National is heaven on Earth. I absolutely love it. Though, you guys have me a little worried about the food...

Directly across from the convention center is a bar called the Tun Tavern. Like a 100 feet across a street if I recall correctly. Good place for a lunch break for a cold pint and some good bar food. Highly recommendation. I wouldn't eat the the convention center. No sir.

https://www.tuntavern.com/

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am not sure what cards or issues you are referring to when you write nice looking vintage--that is pretty vague but I think we are all seeing nice looking as well as not so nice looking vintage as coming down in price. Whether or not any dealer who is in possession of this type of stuff needs to sell or not, if they want to sell, they might not get their price unless their price reflects the adjustment we are seeing pretty much across the board.

Everyone who attends a National (as a buyer or as a seller) is anticipating and intending to do business. It is a lot of effort to simply go to set up and show off your stuff. That can be done without leaving your home or office.

When I say "nice looking vintage" I mean centered - really centered not 60/40 or 70/30 - no obtrusive creases, no stains, cards with strong if not great color and registration. Cards that stop you when you walk by the case.

Please share where you're seeing this stuff come down in price because I'm obviously not looking in the right places. Eye appeal continues to be the driving force on prices across the board.

Any graded T206 Cobb in any pose, PSA 3-4-5 of other T206 HOFers (especially portraits), heck even "authentic" Planks and others continue to go up when auctioned, ANY Cracker Jacks (not just HOFers), Goudey Ruths and Gehrigs. 1950s RCs may have come down some from the peak but the nice ones, like truly centered 1954 Aarons and 1955 Clementes, all pretty difficult to locate and auction prices still reflect very strong interest from PSA 5 to PSA 8. 1952 Mantles - there are no "deals" on these any more (if there ever really were).

I don't know what vintage you see that's slipping, maybe the borderline off center stuff and PSA 4s and less from the 1950s/1960s, but solid stuff gets solid bids and it's harder than ever to find. I know because I collect graded sets from these years, and I'm adding cards much slower than I have in the past and I'm having to pay more than I ever have. That's true at every show I've been to in the past year and it's going to be true in AC.

And not everyone who goes to the National is there strictly for commerce - there are lots of people there for the autographs, some people are there for giveaways, some are there to just experience it.

Here's another tip - if you're just there for the money and the commerce, you're actually going to "miss" the show entirely.

[rjackson44]

cracker jacks insane