Do you consider this to be a fraudulent listing by Heritage?

[D. Bergin]

So did PSA authenticate just the signed sticker…and not the pack?

I’m not sure the listing qualifies as fraudulent, but the item itself does seem pretty shady as presented. I wouldn’t touch it at a fraction of the price it’s going for right now…even if the signature and Gretzky card that’s supposedly been kissing a wax wrapper for 40+ years were real.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would say not fraudulent as it's pretty clearly disclosed. Stupid maybe.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would say not fraudulent as it's pretty clearly disclosed. Stupid maybe.

Well, they are using phrases like this:

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic with a blue marker signature that is certified PSA/DNA Authentic Auto."

So that seems to be saying more than one thing has been authenticated.

And they also say:

"...there are still a small number of O-Pee-Chee brand unopened packs available and ours is set apart from others for two reasons..."

That pretty clearly says this is an O-Pee-Chee brand unopened pack to me.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Well, they are using phrases like this:

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic with a blue marker signature that is certified PSA/DNA Authentic Auto."

So that seems to be saying more than one thing has been authenticated.

And they also say:

"...there are still a small number of O-Pee-Chee brand unopened packs available and ours is set apart from others for two reasons..."

That pretty clearly says this is an O-Pee-Chee brand unopened pack to me.

Pretty much agree with Peter here and while this is stupid, I don’t see how in any way it’s fraudulent. Can you more clearly state your conspiracy?

A. Pack is unopened.
B. It’s a wax pack so you can see the back card which is while likely wax stained, a Gretzky Rc.
C. They look to have not gone though the effort to have Wayne sign the pack but rather removed a sticker auto from an insert card and stuck it to the pack. It’s a legit auto, just stupid; and PSA says it’s real.

So yes it’s dumb, but where is the fraud? It says clearly the card is the back card, where is your proof of reseal as that seems to be the only insinuation as the listing is very clear. I have yet to see a wax wrapper without an identifiable back card (which is usually stained unless you are lucky with some old pantyhose to clean it up).

Edit- ok, I think I figured out your line of thinking and I guess there is a bit of a point. They are stating that the pack is sealed and there is no way to have both of those graded at the same time. Point taken. Because the sticker auto is added they can only grade that much like a cut.

While creatively worded, I don’t see any actual language stating the pack is graded. It’s still a dumb item, but if this works stay tuned for more.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Pretty much agree with Peter here and while this is stupid, I don’t see how in any way it’s fraudulent. Can you more clearly state your conspiracy?

A. Pack is unopened.
B. It’s a wax pack so you can see the back card which is while likely wax stained, a Gretzky Rc.
C. They look to have not gone though the effort to have Wayne sign the pack but rather removed a sticker auto from an insert card and stuck it to the pack. It’s a legit auto, just stupid; and PSA says it’s real.

My issue is that it is not a certified unopened pack, (it almost certainly is not a legitimately unopened pack, if so it would have been certified as such), and the contents, including the Gretzky on back, are in no way certified or even known as being authentic. That's all.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

My issue is that it is not a certified unopened pack, (it almost certainly is not a legitimately unopened pack, if so it would have been certified as such), and the contents, including the Gretzky on back, are in no way certified or even known as being authentic. That's all.

Sorry, I got that after thinking on it a bit. There definitely is faith in it for a buyer but the statement that if it was unopened it would be certified is false. There can be no other grade as it is a adulterated pack with the sticker. If you took a T206 Cobb and glued a cut signature to the card they would only place the title “trading card” with the signature authentication.

If the pack was signed physically and not a sticker added, you might have been able to get an “authentic” grade on the pack but I think it would take a bit of an ask.

You can only get combo card/sig grades on factory produced items to my knowledge.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Sorry, I got that after thinking on it a bit. There definitely is faith in it for a buyer but the statement that if it was unopened it would be certified is false. There can be no other grade as it is a adulterated pack with the sticker. If you took a T206 Cobb and glued a cut signature to the card they would only place the title “trading card” with the signature authentication.

If the pack was signed physically and not a sticker added, you might have been able to get an “authentic” grade on the pack but I think it would take a bit of an ask.

You can only get combo card/sig grades on factory produced items to my knowledge.

I do believe in my statement that if it was a true unopened pack it would be certified...that's where the actual and only value lies, a 1979 OPC (or Topps) pack with a Gretzky RC showing. A clear sticker with a Gretzky auto on it has maybe $200 worth of value if you're lucky. A legit unopened pack with a Gretzky RC showing is probably a $20k-$50k item??? And, in addition, we're to believe someone has both an OPC pack and a Topps pack like this for offer in this auction, and then also more on tap for upcoming auctions? That reeks of absolute nonsense to me...and apparently only to me, lol.

If this pack was legit, it would almost be the hockey equivalent of taking a '52 Topps unopened pack with Mantle showing, putting a clear autographed sticker on it, and having PSA certify only that the autograph on the sticker is genuine, no...one...would...ever...do...that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Well, they are using phrases like this:

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic with a blue marker signature that is certified PSA/DNA Authentic Auto."

So that seems to be saying more than one thing has been authenticated.

And they also say:

"...there are still a small number of O-Pee-Chee brand unopened packs available and ours is set apart from others for two reasons..."

That pretty clearly says this is an O-Pee-Chee brand unopened pack to me.

I see your point. It's certainly one confusing, screwed up listing (and flip) and I have no clue why PSA would get involved with this.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I see your point. It's certainly one confusing, screwed up listing (and flip) and I have no clue why PSA would get involved with this.

The creator of this mess basically cornered into 1 of 2 crap options by doing the silly sticker thing.

A. Grade pack as sealed but a 1 due to the pack being essentially damaged by a sticker which is now uncertified.
B. Grade the auto only as an affixed cut basically.

Just plain stupid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

The creator of this mess basically cornered into 1 of 2 crap options by doing the silly sticker thing.

A. Grade pack as sealed but a 1 due to the pack being essentially damaged by a sticker which is now uncertified.
B. Grade the auto only as an affixed cut basically.

Just plain stupid.

Is there a way to read the auction as Heritage independently representing the pack is sealed, from its own assessment? If that's the case, maybe we're back to stupid and confusing but not fraudulent?

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there a way to read the auction as Heritage independently representing the pack is sealed, from its own assessment? If that's the case, maybe we're back to stupid and confusing but not fraudulent?

Yeah, it is only Heritage saying it's an unopened pack...and if that was their actual evaluation and assessment it should be more clearly stated. But someone, the consigner, is producing these in a quantity (3 so far that I've seen) that you would not realistically expect to see all at once 40+ years after original production.