Taking money out of retirement funds to purchase cards

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

i disagree, Jeff. That's the fiction Wall Street sells. Common stock gives the owner nothing real unless he holds a sufficient % of the issue to demand a board seat. Otherwise, Joe Investor owning 100 shares of Megabig Corp. doesn't hold a claim on jacksquat. Most companies do not pay dividends and the ones that do can terminate them at will. It is basically a bet on increased price, same as a card. The real owners of these companies are their creditors. if the company goes belly up the shareholders are the last to be paid, and usually get nothing for their shares. The only difference between most stocks and cards is that entry and exit are a lot easier with stocks. Now, with all of the different venues for card sales, exiting has never been easier. It still costs a lot more than a stock trade, relatively speaking, and takes longer, but that is consistent with any hard asset investment.

I was wrong about one thing. I figured it would be BobC who would point out that shareholders are last in line in bankruptcy. Of course liquidation represents a threat to stock investments. Pointing out what happens in the extreme isn't particularly illuminating. I mean, if it was, I'd counter with the historical performance of Greg Jefferies rookie cards to make a general statement about sports cards as an asset class.

As for the rest of your comment, it all depends on how you define "few" and "nothing" The estimate I saw is that approximately 37% of exchange traded stocks (NYSE, NASDAQ) pay dividends. Certainly, that isn't a huge number, but over one in three is not how I would define few. How many sports cards pay dividends? Additionally, when you look at long term returns, stock markets return anywhere from 7.5% to over 12% annually (depending on what time frame you chose and whether you DRIP.) That is not nothing. Not to me anyways. I've compared my lifetime earnings to my investment portfolio and I am satisfied with my investing choices (my career choices may be a different matter.)

As far as your comment about small investors having no claim since they aren't significant enough to sit on the board, I think you are conflating the separate, but related, issues of investor relations and corporate governance. But we are (or maybe more specifically, I am) straying far from the topic at hand.

In the end, everyone is free to invest their money any way they see fit. If you want to invest in sports cards, I wish you the best. It isn't for me. I prefer my investments to be associated with assets that generate income even as I hold them passively and long term. And, if anyone asks me for my advice, that is what I would tell them.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

In the end, everyone is free to invest their money any way they see fit. If you want to invest in sports cards, I wish you the best. It isn't for me. I prefer my investments to be associated with assets that generate income even as I hold them passively and long term. And, if anyone asks me for my advice, that is what I would tell them.

Amen!!!!

[G1911]

Anyone can do what they want. My biggest issue is that the pumpers aren't doing what they advocate though.

Stocks are down ~20% this year. Cards are too, from their Covid highs. Some cards are not, just as some stocks are not. Not a single financial advisor will advise clients to close their 401K's and IRA's and put the money, after they lose a ton of it to the Feds, into baseball cards. There is not a single person who doesn't stand to make a huge profit if people were actually dumb enough do this by already being heavily invested into cards that will advise it.

It's just self-serving pumping BS. If you believe going all the way in on cards after huge price spikes is wise, then do it yourself. Close all your retirement accounts. Drain your cash assets (which unlike your 401K, you don't have to take a gigantic tax penalty to spend on cards) and YOLO everything on baseball cards. Do it. Post screen caps and show it. Nobody actually will, because it's just pumping for others to dump their money in so these folks holding right now can make money off it if the hype train keeps going up forever.

The Gary Vee worshipping, r/wallstreetbets subscribing breed of new collectors that get so much disdain in vintage land are at least fairly honest about what they are doing. Beware the doctor who won't take their own prescription.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

Anyone can do what they want. My biggest issue is that the pumpers aren't doing what they advocate though.

Stocks are down ~20% this year. Cards are too, from their Covid highs. Some cards are not, just as some stocks are not. Not a single financial advisor will advise clients to close their 401K's and IRAs and put the money, after they lose a ton of it to the Feds, into baseball cards. There is not a single person who doesn't stand to make a huge profit if people were dumb enough to do this by already being heavily invested in cards that will advise it.

It's just self-serving pumping BS. If you believe going all the way in on cards after huge price spikes is wise, then do it yourself. Close all your retirement accounts. Drain your cash assets (which, unlike your 401K, you don't have to take a gigantic tax penalty to spend on cards) and YOLO everything on baseball cards. Do it. Post screencaps and show it. Nobody actually will, because it's just pumping for others to dump their money in so these folks holding right now can make money off it if the hype train keeps going up forever.

The Gary Vee worshipping, r/wallstreetbets subscribing breed of new collectors that get so much disdain in vintage land are at least fairly honest about what they are doing. Beware the doctor who won't take their prescription.

Agree!! I will say the major pumpers Gary Vee PWCC Ect are not average guys who have to move their retirement account monies out and go all in with funds to cards. Those guys already have the money and big money. They may want the average guy to deplete their 401ks moving the funds into cards but people who are smart, like the guys here aren't going to do that and the people that are don't have enough money in their 401s anyway to make a difference. A fool and their money are soon parted. If you're wise you can still invest in cards and your retirement account.

Many don't have the smarts to invest wisely in cards just as many don't have the stomach to invest in the stock market.

[Exhibitman]

Fair points, Jeff. i am particularly hostile to Wall Street but i see little else out there. All assets have their ups and downs, pros and cons.

I invest in the usual stuff but also in cards....but in the latter only with the proceeds of what I sell. Definitely makes it a challenge but also a boatload of fun.

I try not to forget that not everything is about making money (there's also women and weed, for example). Cards are (I hope) more than an investment for the denizens of this board. As Burdick said, a card collection is: "a magic carpet that takes you away from work-a-day cares to havens of relaxing quietude where you can relive the pleasures and adventures of a past day—brought to life in vivid picture and prose."



Gus agrees.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Fair points, Jeff. i am particularly hostile to Wall Street but i see little else out there. All assets have their ups and downs, pros and cons.

To be fair, I have no doubt that the game is rigged and try to proceed accordingly. I once told a financial planner friend that a stockbroker is one of only two professions that get paid on the way in and on the way out. He didn't disagree.

[Seven]

My biggest issue with doing this is that I would not want to sell a card. Especially if I grew an emotional attachment to it. Most of my collection, I do not look at as investments.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

To be fair, I have no doubt that the game is rigged and try to proceed accordingly. I once told a financial planner friend that a stockbroker is one of only two professions that get paid on the way in and on the way out. He didn't disagree.

You have that right Jeff. The system is somewhat rigged against the average normal person. From companies and people that seek out where Wall Street and stock exchanges put their computers and servers, so they can place their own computers and servers just across the street to try and get trading info and price updates mere milliseconds before everyone else, to investment firms acting as underwriters and handling IPOs and letting their stockbrokers selectively pick and choose which favored customers and clients to initially offer such shares to. Even when you decide to purchase (or sell) a stock, remember, that order is not instantaneously executed, and is potentially subject to various decisions and options by brokers, third market makers, and others that may be involved in the process, and also making money off your transaction as well. And whether you place market orders or limit orders can have a great impact on this process. Though the SEC has rules and laws in place to provide more transparency and try and ensure brokers and others are always giving customers the best executions possible of their stock orders, there are still ways for brokers and others involved to work the system to their advantage, sometimes over that of their customers.

By the way, what is the other profession........doctors? On some level then I guess you could also possibly include Auction Houses that charge seller's commissions AND buyer's premiums.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

it all depends on how you define "few" and "nothing" The estimate I saw is that approximately 37% of exchange traded stocks (NYSE, NASDAQ) pay dividends. Certainly, that isn't a huge number, but over one in three is not how I would define few. How many sports cards pay dividends? Additionally, when you look at long term returns, stock markets return anywhere from 7.5% to over 12% annually (depending on what time frame you chose and whether you DRIP.) That is not nothing. Not to me anyways. I.

Hence why stating at a 5% 0 risk CD has to be tempting for "card holders" and stock holders alike. I was right on many of my contrarian plays, wrong a one big one.

[Lorewalker]

I believe in being diversified...which I am. I think Wall St has a greater appeal to most because it is widely held and there is an absolute value for a share of stock which there is not for a 65 Mantle.

It appears card market moves closely mirror Wall St. If Wall St is down so are your cards.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I believe in being diversified...which I am. I think Wall St has a greater appeal to most because it is widely held and there is an absolute value for a share of stock which there is not for a 65 Mantle.

It appears card market moves closely mirror Wall St. If Wall St is down so are your cards.

Diversity is good.

The other big greater appeal is that there is nothing protecting baseball cards at all. Nobody will do anything if the market collapses. It relies on the hype to survive and grow.

If the stock market collapses, not has a bad year and downturns for a brief period as the cycle always goes, but actually collapses, the US dollar loses its value, cards are worth nothing, and civil order and structure will quickly collapse with it. The state and our institutions will go to extreme measures to keep it up in the worst scenarios. The downside risk is a lot less when every institution and person, whether they own stock or not, is so heavily invested in this not happening to the market.

[MR RAREBACK]

All that really matters in life, is how many Ty cobbs you have