Top 25 Worst MLB HOFER�S

nat · #1 11-03-2022, 10:54 AM

"Even if there were an anti-reliever bias in the WAR calcs (and I'm not saying there is)"

Far from being an anti-reliever bias in WAR, there's a pro reliever bias. WAR has a leverage component, which means that it rates pitcher performance in late-and-close situations more than it does in other situations. Which is to say that relievers get more credit than their raw stats would deserve.

Mike D. · #2 11-03-2022, 11:03 AM

My brother posted this tidbit on Twitter recently, and I thought it was at least tangential to this conversation.

There are 268 Hall of Famers inducted as players.

Only 101 of them debuted after Jackie Robinson�s debut with the Kansas City Monarchs in 1945.

G1911 · #3 11-03-2022, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nat

"Even if there were an anti-reliever bias in the WAR calcs (and I'm not saying there is)"

Far from being an anti-reliever bias in WAR, there's a pro reliever bias. WAR has a leverage component, which means that it rates pitcher performance in late-and-close situations more than it does in other situations. Which is to say that relievers get more credit than their raw stats would deserve.

This. WAR is written to dictate the general outcome. It is very specifically designed to heavily puinish nineteenth century pitchers and heavily reward modern relievers. There are numerous era biases and judgements in it that one has to implicitly consider accurate and right to use WAR as an effective measurement.

packs · #4 11-03-2022, 12:39 PM

Wilhelm really was an underrated guy. What a beast of a career. Obviously lights out from the pen but given the chance start almost full-time at 36 years old he wins 15 games and leads the league in ERA and ERA+.

Guy pitched in over a 1,000 games and didn't even start his career until he was 29.

G1911 · #5 11-03-2022, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Wilhelm really was an underrated guy. What a beast of a career. Obviously lights out from the pen but given the start at 36 years old he wins 15 games and leads the league in ERA and ERA+.

Guy pitched in over a 1,000 games and didn't even start his career until he was 29.

Wilhelm is the reliever who really screams "why didn't they let him start?" to me. He got to be a starter for only one full season, a season in which he led the league in ERA. Back to the bullpen after that.

D. Bergin · #6 11-03-2022, 01:19 PM

If Baines and Sutter are your guys punching bags, consider yourselves lucky.

I’m all for putting in just about anybody into any specific HOF for any particular reason, as long as they made their mark on the sport. Now go look up Jackie Tonawanda. International Boxing Hall of Fame recently put her in the hall.

I’m all for trailblazing female boxers getting in. Problem is, there’s no record of her actually being a boxer, or fighting any other women. She happened to fool a bunch of writers in the 70’s and 80’s that she was some sort of gym warrior. Most have admitted they got taken by her, through made up news clippings and press releases.

She was one of the first women to get licensed to box in the state of New York, but never actually used it. She called herself “The female Muhammad Ali”, and even conned Ali into taking pictures with her and talking her up, but she ignored any women who actually wanted to fight her. She was a manufactured persona.

Weird thing is, she was dead 10+ years before she got elected into the HOF, so somehow she conned a bunch of people from the grave to let her in. It’s basically the equivalent of Sidd Finch getting into the Baseball HOF.

bbsports · #7 11-03-2022, 05:59 PM

How about Bill Mazeroski. Do you think he was inducted into the Hall of Fame because of a game winning home run to win the 1960 World Series?

G1911 · #8 11-03-2022, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbsports

How about Bill Mazeroski. Do you think he was inducted into the Hall of Fame because of a game winning home run to win the 1960 World Series?

I think it was his reputation as the GOAT 2B that did it. Big bomb doesn�t hurt.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #9 11-04-2022, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbsports

How about Bill Mazeroski. Do you think he was inducted into the Hall of Fame because of a game winning home run to win the 1960 World Series?

I would say without that HR, he's not in.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #10 11-04-2022, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would say without that HR, he's not in.

And shouldn't be in. One shining moment + a solid, albeit not great career does not = HOF.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #11 11-04-2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

And shouldn't be in. One shining moment + a solid, albeit not great career does not = HOF.

I don't disagree. For my money Frank White had a career virtually indistinguishable from Maz's and nobody's talking about Frank White for the HOF. Might be different if he hit a game winning HR in game 7 against the Phillies in 1980.

glynparson · #12 11-04-2022, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't disagree. For my money Frank White had a career virtually indistinguishable from Maz's and nobody's talking about Frank White for the HOF. Might be different if he hit a game winning HR in game 7 against the Phillies in 1980.

Mazeroski 10x all star frank white 5x all star. Mazeroski was considered the best of his era in the nl. I�d say Whitaker was considered the best off his era in the Al not frank white. And Whitaker should be in. If Ozzie smith is in without complaint I don�t see mazeroski as such an egregious mistake and for those saying take away that home run but why he did do it why pretend he didn�t.

lowpopper · #13 11-04-2022, 01:31 AM

Fred McGriff is reading this and grinding his teeth

Jersey City Giants · #14 11-04-2022, 12:15 PM

Baines is the ugly girl who got into the club because she was with her hot friend.

Was he a very good baseball player? Of course. But in over 20 years he only led the league in any "major" category once (slugging percentage).

Can't comment on the others as I did not watch them play. But I saw Baines throughout his entire career. He is NOT a HOFer in my book.

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