After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?

raulus · #1 11-07-2022, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

And I cannot understand how anyone could possibly hold your viewpoint. It just comes across as remarkably ignorant to me.

Really? Nothing else matters to you? What if this person completely turned their life around and now works for the FBI to help identify fraudsters? What if they no longer buy or sell any cards at all and only want to contribute to discussions to share their hobby knowledge and any lessons they learned from making mistakes in the past? You're really not interested in anything they might have to say? Really?

People who see the world in black & white drive me insane.

I'll just leave this here, because it makes me chuckle every time...

MailboxBaseball · #2 11-07-2022, 04:31 PM

I voted no.

To me Net54 is sort of a close knit community, almost a "baseball card family" of sorts, even though I'm sure many will consider that to be an overstatement.

Paying a debt to society is one thing, but learning from their mistakes and changing their lifestyles and mindset is completely a separate topic.

No one is saying these people shouldnt be allowed back into the hobby. They can buy, sell, or trade at any card show or other website in the world. But if they have defrauded people in the past, I think we should take at least the minimal steps to protect this special site.

Many of us have done some pretty insane deals over $10-grand on this site by paying via friends and family. When I tell my friends that, they ask "are you crazy???" haha.

If we don't have trust here when doing a deal, what do we have?

Snowman · #3 11-07-2022, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MailboxBaseball

I voted no.

To me Net54 is sort of a close knit community, almost a "baseball card family" of sorts, even though I'm sure many will consider that to be an overstatement.

Paying a debt to society is one thing, but learning from their mistakes and changing their lifestyles and mindset is completely a separate topic.

No one is saying these people shouldnt be allowed back into the hobby. They can buy, sell, or trade at any card show or other website in the world. But if they have defrauded people in the past, I think we should take at least the minimal steps to protect this special site.

Many of us have done some pretty insane deals over $10-grand on this site by paying via friends and family. When I tell my friends that, they ask "are you crazy???" haha.

If we don't have trust here when doing a deal, what do we have?

Simply being a member here does not automatically grant one trust though in the B/S/T forums. It still has to be earned. I've even sold cards to people that didn't know me at all and who weren't about to trust a new member, so I just sent them the cards and said, "pay me after you receive it if you like the card and want to keep it. If you don't, just send it back".

MailboxBaseball · #4 11-07-2022, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Simply being a member here does not automatically grant one trust though in the B/S/T forums. It still has to be earned. I've even sold cards to people that didn't know me at all and who weren't about to trust a new member, so I just sent them the cards and said, "pay me after you receive it if you like the card and want to keep it. If you don't, just send it back".

Yeah, and that's sometimes how it goes, depending on how interested the seller is to make the deal happen.

New sellers have to build some positive feedback or people to vouch for them if needed, as it goes in many clubs - whether online or in person.

So are you saying that prior fraudsters/criminals should be allowed to sell on here, but with the condition that they mail the card out first prior to receiving payment?

If you are, then that's not a bad suggestion. I just don't see how it would ever be enforced here unless the person volunteers the information.

Snowman · #5 11-07-2022, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MailboxBaseball

So are you saying that prior fraudsters/criminals should be allowed to sell on here, but with the condition that they mail the card out first prior to receiving payment?

If you are, then that's not a bad suggestion. I just don't see how it would ever be enforced here unless the person volunteers the information.

I don't know. It would really depend on what they did and what they're trying to sell now, in addition to countless other factors for me.

For example, if Gary Moser wanted to sign up here, I would absolutely be in favor of allowing him to post, but I probably wouldn't want him selling BVG 10 Joe Mantana RCs in the B/S/T section lol. But if Bill Mastro signed up and decided he wanted to help kids complete their low-grade raw vintage sets at kid-friendly prices, I'd be all for it. There are just too many possibilities to say definitively one way or the other what I would do if it were my decision to make. It would be a case by case basis for me.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 11-07-2022, 06:36 PM

Is it only hobby crimes we care about in keeping this community clean? What about embezzlers, financial sector fraudsters, sex offenders, drug offenders, and so on? How far is this exclusion going?

Casey2296 · #7 11-07-2022, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How far is this exclusion going?

Dodger fans...

Leon · #8 11-07-2022, 06:47 PM

Yes, it is only hobby crimes. I am not sure that was perfectly clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is it only hobby crimes we care about in keeping this community clean? What about embezzlers, financial sector fraudsters, sex offenders, drug offenders, and so on? How far is this exclusion going?

Mozzie22 · #9 11-07-2022, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't know. It would really depend on what they did and what they're trying to sell now, in addition to countless other factors for me.

For example, if Gary Moser wanted to sign up here, I would absolutely be in favor of allowing him to post, but I probably wouldn't want him selling BVG 10 Joe Mantana RCs in the B/S/T section lol. But if Bill Mastro signed up and decided he wanted to help kids complete their low-grade raw vintage sets at kid-friendly prices, I'd be all for it. There are just too many possibilities to say definitively one way or the other what I would do if it were my decision to make. It would be a case by case basis for me.

Wow!

Btw, thanks for that Bill Mastro hypothetical! I think everyone needs a good laugh from time to time. UNBELIEVABLE...and sad.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 11-07-2022, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozzie22

Wow!

Btw, thanks for that Bill Mastro hypothetical! I think everyone needs a good laugh from time to time. UNBELIEVABLE...and sad.

Gary posted here in the past. The forum survived.

Snowman · #11 11-08-2022, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozzie22

Wow!

Btw, thanks for that Bill Mastro hypothetical! I think everyone needs a good laugh from time to time. UNBELIEVABLE...and sad.

I didn't say I was a fan of Moser or Mastro. But I value learning opportunities, and if you think these two guys don't have more hobby knowledge than half the members on this board combined, you're nuts. Imagine if we could catch a drunken Gary Moser and he just started spilling the beans about all the different cards out there that are trimmed. Or which sets have 90% of the cards trimmed from, or who certain PSA insiders were at certain times that were grading his cards, or who knows what else. The point is, I'd be interested to hear what either of those guys has to say regardless of whether or not I like them.

Snowman · #12 11-07-2022, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I'll just leave this here, because it makes me chuckle every time...

I'd be interested to learn why you think that applies here.

I'd also be interested to learn how you managed to attach your entire screen along with a 100x200 pixel image of what you were actually attempting to attach.

raulus · #13 11-07-2022, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'd be interested to learn why you think that applies here.

I'd also be interested to learn how you managed to attach your entire screen along with a 100x200 pixel image of what you were actually attempting to attach.

Pretty big fail, I know.

Gorditadogg · #14 11-07-2022, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I'll just leave this here, because it makes me chuckle every time...

Love it

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View Poll Results: After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?
Yes	67	18.56%
No	257	71.19%
I don't care	37	10.25%
Voters: 361. You may not vote on this poll

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