Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

packs · #1 11-17-2022, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

It�s odd that the burden is on Hernandez supporters to explain why dWAR likes him. Perhaps you should explain why dWAR didn�t like Mattingly?

I can't. And that's the point. Mattingly had 9 gold gloves. If 11 gold gloves is a testament to Hernandez, how can 9 not be for Mattingly?

cgjackson222 · #2 11-17-2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I can't. And that's the point. Mattingly had 9 gold gloves. If 11 gold gloves is a testament to Hernandez, how can 9 not be for Mattingly?

Not all Gold Gloves are created equal.

Check out their actual fielding stats:
Hernandez led the league in double plays turned 6x (the guy was doing 3-6-3 double plays),total zone runs at 1B 8x , assists at 1B 5x.

Mattingly led the league in double plays turned 2x, total zone runs as 1B 1x, assists at 1B zero times.

Please show me someone that thinks Mattingly was a better fielder than Hernandez.

Also note that Hernandez career OBP was much higher than Mattingly's and his OPS+ was slightly better too.

packs · #3 11-17-2022, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Not all Gold Gloves are created equal.

Check out their actual fielding stats:
Hernandez led the league in double plays turned 6x (the guy was doing 3-6-3 double plays),total zone runs at 1B 8x , assists at 1B 5x.

Mattingly led the league in double plays turned 2x, total zone runs as 1B 1x, assists at 1B zero times.

Please show me someone that thinks Mattingly was a better fielder than Hernandez.

Also note that Hernandez career OBP was much higher than Mattingly's and his OPS+ was slightly better too.

OPS+ differs by 1 point. Hernandez played 17 seasons to Mattingly's injury plagued 14, of which you said only 4 seasons were peak performance. How did a guy who played 10 seasons of injury plagued baseball end up so close to a healthy Hernandez?

Because there's almost nothing that separates them, that's how. Except that Mattingly had to be hurt most of his career to end up so close to Hernandez.

And as long as you want to keep hanging onto gold gloves, during their contemporary careers, Mattingly won the AL gold glove every single season Hernandez won the NL gold glove (besides 1984, but then Keith didn't win one in 1989), making him Hernandez's direct counterpart

ejharrington · #4 11-17-2022, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

OPS+ differs by 1 point. Hernandez played 17 seasons to Mattingly's injury plagued 14, of which you said only 4 seasons were peak performance. How did a guy who played 10 seasons of injury plagued baseball end up so close to a healthy Hernandez?

Because there's almost nothing that separates them, that's how. Except that Mattingly had to be hurt most of his career to end up so close to Hernandez.

And as long as you want to keep hanging onto gold gloves, during their contemporary careers, Mattingly won the AL gold glove every single season Hernandez won the NL gold glove (besides 1984, but then Keith didn't win one in 1989), making him Hernandez's direct counterpart

They aren't that close. Hernandez has 60 career WAR, Mattingly 42 career WAR.

packs · #5 11-17-2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejharrington

They aren't that close. Hernandez has 60 career WAR, Mattingly 42 career WAR.

If you can't point to something else, it's because it's not there. The favorable WAR for Hernandez has been discussed to death.

And again, Mattingly had to be hurt for the majority of his career for Hernandez to put up similar career counting statistics. He was obviously far superior to Hernandez. Why else would he have to be hurt to finish so close to him?

cgjackson222 · #6 11-17-2022, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

If you can't point to something else, it's because it's not there. The favorable WAR for Hernandez has been discussed to death.

And again, Mattingly had to be hurt for the majority of his career for Hernandez to put up similar career counting statistics. He was obviously far superior to Hernandez. Why else would he have to be hurt to finish so close to him?

If Mattingly had stayed healthy he would already be in the Hall of Fame. You yourself just said he was hurt for the majority of his career. Are you implying we should put him in the Hall for what he could have done if he hadn't been hurt?

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