Some of the mysteries and myths surrounding the most famous card in the hobby.

Carter08 · #1 11-19-2022, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, If it is undetectable how would you ever see it.

Ha

RCMcKenzie · #2 11-19-2022, 06:39 PM

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

G1911 · #3 11-19-2022, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

Asking questions and looking for evidence is the opposite of old lady gossip. If an assertion is made and said to be true, that claim should be supported by evidence.

Pat R · #4 11-19-2022, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is this the other known Piedmont Wagner? (from t206resource) Does it have a history? Grandpa's Attic, under a doll house, etc? Is the caption darker? maybe not a good scan?

If you found a Van Gogh in the 1980's and wouldn't tell anyone where it came from, would it be old lady gossip to ask questions about authenticity? The burden of proof is not on the skeptics. I don't have a position, I'm just trying to learn.

That card sold for 86k back in a 2001 Mastro auction I'm not sure but I think the image was copied from a catalog but regardless it's not a great image plus it has other things going on with it like a grey layer shift and some other transfer on the front. With that said the caption looks like normal color for a T206 caption to me everything else is hard to judge with small low detail image.
One thing that does look odd is the G in Pittsburg is higher than the other letters and other Wagners.

Here it is brightened up a little
00b.jpg

RCMcKenzie · #5 11-19-2022, 07:15 PM

Yeah, the caption looks more normal on your image. It's difficult to say looking at scans. It has a wavy left border.

I was around the boards in 2001. I don't recall this auction, but posters used to talk about his auctions a lot. I wonder if anyone remembers talk of that sale, or still has the catalog.

Pat R · #6 11-19-2022, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Yeah, the caption looks more normal on your image. It's difficult to say looking at scans. It has a wavy left border.

I was around the boards in 2001. I don't recall this auction, but posters used to talk about his auctions a lot. I wonder if anyone remembers talk of that sale, or still has the catalog.

You can read the story on that Wagner pages 5,6 & 7 of part 7 it's an interesting story.

https://www.t206resource.com/Article...gner-File.html

RCMcKenzie · #7 11-19-2022, 08:23 PM

Thanks for the link to the Bob Lemke Wagner file. Very fun to read.

A few takeaways: It doesn't seem like Bray actually saw the card. Family says grandpa pulled it from a pack. Interesting note about the Sep. 4, 1909 Sporting Life magazine ad depicting Wagner and saying, "now in all 5-cent packages of Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, and Sovereign cigarettes." Also, I wonder if the Trader Speaks Piedmont is a 3rd example sitting in a desk drawer somewhere.

Pat R · #8 11-19-2022, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Thanks for the link to the Bob Lemke Wagner file. Very fun to read.

A few takeaways: It doesn't seem like Bray actually saw the card. Family says grandpa pulled it from a pack. Interesting note about the Sep. 4, 1909 Sporting Life magazine ad depicting Wagner and saying, "now in all 5-cent packages of Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, and Sovereign cigarettes." Also, I wonder if the Trader Speaks Piedmont is a 3rd example sitting in a desk drawer somewhere.

They were generic ads on what they planned on printing here's a Hindu ad that has subjects that weren't printed with Hindu's for example Waddell throwing, Nicholls, Lobert, and Dooin weren't printed with Hindu backs, most of them also show the names on top of the cards.

img653.jpg

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