1968 Topps Milton Bradley help

Cliff Bowman · #1 11-22-2022, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Based on the sheet Carlton and Joe put together(seen above), both Marichal checklists appear on the sheet, thus there would be an equal number of these two checklist cards.

Correct, one has fine mesh and one has wide mesh.

ALR-bishop · #2 11-22-2022, 08:39 AM

So, are DPs with differences variations or just two versions of a card ?

Are all of the 68 baseball MB cards variations, or just a second set or separate subset of the 68 Topps set ?

savedfrommyspokes · #3 11-22-2022, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

So, are DPs with differences variations or just two versions of a card ?

Are all of the 68 baseball MB cards variations, or just a second set or separate subset of the 68 Topps set ?

Good question. In regard to the MB set, learning from Carlton's research on this set, I count the Marichal checklists as two different cards as they appear in their own respective spot on the sheet. IMO, the MB set would not be complete w/o copies of both. Coincidentally, the same two versions of this Marichal card appear in the 1968 Topps set. Each version appears on a separate sheet, thus like most all Topps checklists by series, I have always considered them variations as I would only need one in my set to consider it complete. Either way, I think it is up to each collector to decide this question.

Until I met Carlton (pre net54), I considered MB cards variations. After he explained the nuances of this set to me, the MB set is most certainly it's own set independent of all other sets(IE. not a subset ).

ALR-bishop · #4 11-22-2022, 10:31 AM

I tend to agree with you Larry on both counts.

But if one adopts the limited definition of a variation as a card intentionally changed by the manufacturer are double prints in a set, like the 52 Mantle, Thompson and Robinson variations ( or the many checklist DPs of the 60s and 70s) ? The differences were not specifically intentional but did result from intentional decisions in the set up of the sheet.

Are the 62 greenies that did not involve pose differences variations ?

How about the 82 Blackless "set " They are just unintentional print defects but ended up in packs. Variations ? SCD listed them as a separate set

I tend to view DP differences as variations. The greenies also. But I tend to view the 82 Blackless as print defects, although clearly they are recognized by the hobby as either variations or a separate subset of the 82 Topps.

Also agree that each collector should make their own call

G1911 · #5 11-22-2022, 11:04 AM

The Marichal checklist was printed in double quantity, with 2 spots on the sheet. One with each variation of it. Just as the 311 Mantle is a DP with a variation, so too is the MB checklist. That it has a variation does not make it not a double print. A DP with a variation has never normally been considered an entirely new card, just a card that has a variation. The card is a double print.

savedfrommyspokes · #6 11-22-2022, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

The Marichal checklist was printed in double quantity, with 2 spots on the sheet. One with each variation of it. Just as the 311 Mantle is a DP with a variation, so too is the MB checklist. That it has a variation does not make it not a double print. A DP with a variation has never normally been considered an entirely new card, just a card that has a variation. The card is a double print.

I would agree with your opinion on DPs with regular issued Topps sets, however, the MB set is anything but a regular issued Topps set. Thus, each of these checklists, as they are easily distinguishable, are one part of the 77 card baseball portion of this set as well as one part each of the overall 132 unique cards for this set. With cards from both the 1968 Topps 1st and 2nd series represented on the MB sheet, each of these checklists were taken from their respective series and were (for whatever reason EDA see my next post) both included in one of the 77 spots for baseball cards on the MB sheet. If both checklists appearing on the MB sheet were from the same series, then I would agree that this card would indeed be a DP.

ALR-bishop · #7 11-22-2022, 11:48 AM

I guess I find myself more in Greg's camp on this. Like the 52 Mantle, Thompson and Robinson the CL was printed twice on the same sheet and has differences and hence, to me, are variations. But I need both to have a complete "master" set.

I know Carlton, whose views I highly respect....and yours as well...differ from mine, and that's fine by me

G1911 · #8 11-22-2022, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I would agree with your opinion on DPs with regular issued Topps sets, however, the MB set is anything but a regular issued Topps set. Thus, each of these checklists, as they are easily distinguishable, are one part of the 77 card baseball portion of this set as well as one part each of the overall 132 unique cards for this set. With cards from both the 1968 Topps 1st and 2nd series represented on the MB sheet, each of these checklists were taken from their respective series and were (for whatever reason EDA see my next post) both included in one of the 77 spots for baseball cards on the MB sheet. If both checklists appearing on the MB sheet were from the same series, then I would agree that this card would indeed be a DP.

This would be a very new definition of a unique card that has never before been accepted or used. Almost all Topps checklists have this difference from their DP�ing. We do not consider the base Topps set version to require 2 of the Marichal checklists, that have the exact same variation from being printed in 2 series with a different border design. We consider a base 1968 Topps set to be 598 cards. Variations are not unique cards, they are a variant you need for a master set, but they are not an entirely different card. I have both for my set because I like variations, but the Marichal checklist is a single card with multiple variations, just like every other variation card.

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