Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Originally Posted by mattsey9 View Post
Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

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It certainly doesn't bode well for them but some other group of 16 "committee members" could feel differently. This group was stacked against them -- voters like Sandberg Thomas and Morris who were on the record as despising any and all alleged PED users.
As some have suggested the proper remedy is to have a committee tasked with assessing "PED/Selig era" players make some sort of informed recommendations.
I find the sanctimoniousness of the voters on this issue a bit much at times. It's not like the Hall of Fame has ever been populated by those who were above cheating and taking advantage of loopholes to play their best and win at whatever cost.
Go back to Pud Galvin and his primitive PEDs....
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...her-of-juicing
... This week the great Gaylord Perry passed. He is all-but-celebrated for cheating (being called "crafty" which is admirable). I think Perry is a HOFer but what did Barry Bonds do that makes him so much worse.? He (allegedly I am compelled to write) unknowingly took "supplements" that enabled him to work out harder, prolong an already great career and commit the sin of being so damn good that he virtually obliterated the record books.
Likely David Ortiz did much the same (to a lesser degree and with less stunning results). But people like the beloved "Big Papi" and not the surly Bonds. I fear that to a degree that's really what's going on.

I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

[Misunderestimated]

Posted by BobC: I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

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Yeah it does make sense. I mean why slate Palmeiro and not McGwire and (to a lesser extent) Sosa who are both "liked" ? Sosa and McGwire both outpolled Raffy as recall. The ballot construction is very suspect.
My guess is that Schilling doesn't get votes because people are (legitimately) afraid that he will embarrass the HOF or at least create unnecessary controversies in his induction speech

Peter -- I did see the Mays documentary that presents a very affable and admirable Bonds. It had has even been criticized as "Bonds propaganda" because Mays so clearly wants Bonds (his godson) to be appreciated and to be in the HOF.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BobC

I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

The one thing I give McGwire credit for is not lying about it. He came clean and didn't implicate anybody else. It was good to see a player owning it and not trying to convince everyone (especially the US congress) otherwise.

I hope McGwire makes it before those other PED players that tried to make us all believe it was their natural ability. Funny how that ability only lasted for all of them during the same time period.

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy. Look at Mariano Rivera, obviously the ultimate nice guy. The first and only 100% first ballot vote getter. I still have a difficult time trying to figure out how some players were not 100% vote recipients.

Someone mentioned Papi and PEDs. Well, what's that tell you? Papi wasn't an ass to the press.

Look at Ted Williams, he wasn't a "press" darling yet they at least had enough respect to vote him with about 93.4% of the vote (oh yeah, no PEDs for Ted).

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

The one thing I give McGwire credit for is not lying about it. He came clean and didn't implicate anybody else. It was good to see a player owning it and not trying to convince everyone (especially the US congress) otherwise.

I hope McGwire makes it before those other PED players that tried to make us all believe it was their natural ability. Funny how that ability only lasted for all of them during the same time period.

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy. Look at Mariano Rivera, obviously the ultimate nice guy. The first and only 100% first ballot vote getter. I still have a difficult time trying to figure out how some players were not 100% vote recipients.

Someone mentioned Papi and PEDs. Well, what's that tell you? Papi wasn't an ass to the press.

Look at Ted Williams, he wasn't a "press" darling yet they at least had enough respect to vote him with about 93.4% of the vote (oh yeah, no PEDs for Ted).

When did McGwire confess to all his PED use? All I remember is his constantly saying "I am not here to talk about the past" or some silly thing like that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

When did McGwire confess to all his PED use? All I remember is his constantly saying "I am not here to talk about the past" or some silly thing like that.

In a nationally televised interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3STkQC8pVEE

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

In a nationally televised interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3STkQC8pVEE

Thanks for the link. It was great till the end when he completely lied in a way to make himself look better. That was just sad. If those pills and injections didn't work nobody would take it and we wouldn't have got all those crazy numbers.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bnorth

When did McGwire confess to all his PED use? All I remember is his constantly saying "I am not here to talk about the past" or some silly thing like that.

He did it a long time ago - you can research it on the net. He probably constantly indicated he was not there to talk about the past because he probably felt no need to continually re-hash what he already admitted to. I guess being in the lime light means having to say your sorry a 1,000 times (and then some).

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fred

He did it a long time ago - you can research it on the net. He probably constantly indicated he was not there to talk about the past because he probably felt no need to continually re-hash what he already admitted to. I guess being in the lime light means having to say your sorry a 1,000 times (and then some).

I would imagine it was primarily because he didn't want to either commit perjury or to admit to a federal crime while under oath in front of a committee that was actively looking for a scapegoat.

[Fred]

At least McGwire didn't lie to congress... It took a few years for McGwire to own up to it, but at least he did. I don't think I can recall McGwire flat out denying PED use.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fred

At least McGwire didn't lie to congress... It took a few years for McGwire to own up to it, but at least he did. I don't think I can recall McGwire flat out denying PED use.

I wasn't criticizing him, he picked the rational choice. He can perjure, become the scapegoat they were looking for and possibly face prosecution, or just deflect. Palmeiro chose perjury, McGwire chose to deflect and pick the safest route. Makes sense. I'd probably do the same.

I'm not aware of any evidence McGriff used that he would need to deny. Not that a denial means anything, I have noticed little correlation between what people say and actual truth.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by bnorth

When did McGwire confess to all his PED use? All I remember is his constantly saying "I am not here to talk about the past" or some silly thing like that.

I thought McGwire eventually admitted to PED use prior to his getting hired as a hitting coach for the Cardinals. I don't know if that was a condition of his being hired, but I seem to remember that was the timing of it.

Found this link that seems to confirm my memory of the timing:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-for-the-cards