PWCC Messaged Me...

jthorst75 · #1 12-28-2022, 04:16 PM

Crazy you mentioned this. Pre-pandemic I stopped at their then new location to drop off a submission and they were trying to talk me into using my potential funds for future purchases. I passed and told them my focus was going into coins. They told me that they were going to have a coin auction down the road but I never heard or saw anything. Now that my son fell out of coin collecting, I'm left with a small impressive lot of coins. Since I collected graded cards in the past, I made sure any coin I bought was graded but only PCGS. Not to kill or hijack your thread but if you're looking for a particular coin, let me know. I tried selling on here only to get crickets. I still find them fascinating, but I'm a card collector by heart. Any interests please check out my photo album. Thanks community!

Peter_Spaeth · #2 12-28-2022, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthorst75

Crazy you mentioned this. Pre-pandemic I stopped at their then new location to drop off a submission and they were trying to talk me into using my potential funds for future purchases. I passed and told them my focus was going into coins. They told me that they were going to have a coin auction down the road but I never heard or saw anything. Now that my son fell out of coin collecting, I'm left with a small impressive lot of coins. Since I collected graded cards in the past, I made sure any coin I bought was graded but only PCGS. Not to kill or hijack your thread but if you're looking for a particular coin, let me know. I tried selling on here only to get crickets. I still find them fascinating, but I'm a card collector by heart. Any interests please check out my photo album. Thanks community!

I started collecting coins a few years ago when I just had to have a $20 St. Gaudens. Still mostly cards, but I do like the coins a lot. It's a mostly fixed price market, so I would think an auction is a good idea for a seller like PWCC.

Snowman · #3 12-28-2022, 06:08 PM

PWCC haters crack me up. Pointing to a weekly auction that ends on Christmas Day as if it's reflective of their normal volume. And people pointing out the fact that they are expanding their business by auctioning coins as somehow being evidence that the sky is falling lol.

Yet every week I'm bidding on their auctions and getting smashed despite bidding cards up to 3x and 4x "comps". I think they're doing just fine. Or great rather.

Here was my most recent failed attempt to buy a nice key vintage card in this week's auction...

1975 Topps George Brett PSA 6 RC. It's "worth" about $150. I bid this one up to $600 and gave up.

G1911 · #4 12-28-2022, 06:32 PM

I doubt this is indicative of any kind of financial problem for PWCC. Expanding your business into other areas is the normal progression, for those in trouble and crushing it both.

People have voted with their wallets and made it clear that most will happily bid with shill bidding plagued schemes and fraud rings, time and time again. For some reason, many hobbyists will even do unpaid PR work denying inconvenient facts related to these fraud rings. The vast majority clearly have no interest in things cleaning up because they see profit in the future as values lift, regardless of how legitimate those values are. PWCC will be just fine as a result. Shill bidding and fraud clearly pay off big time.

Eric72 · #5 12-28-2022, 07:57 PM

Would trimmed coins be easier to spot than trimmed cards?

Peter_Spaeth · #6 12-28-2022, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

Would trimmed coins be easier to spot than trimmed cards?

Coin doctoring, actually, is a huge problem.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 12-28-2022, 08:13 PM

How did that 6 not even get one of those eye appeal stickers?

Eric72 · #8 12-28-2022, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Coin doctoring, actually, is a huge problem.

I can only imagine.

My knowledge of coins, in general, is limited. I know practically nothing about the market.

jingram058 · #9 12-29-2022, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

Would trimmed coins be easier to spot than trimmed cards?

Remember the Underdog cartoon? How he bit his coins to verify their authenticity?

Dead-Ball-Hitter · #10 12-29-2022, 10:08 AM

Here's a contrast between the two categories of collectables:

A card might have unwanted foxing around the edges, but in the coin world its considered "wonderfully aged toning" and often carries a large premium, particularly if the "toning" has more than one color! pretty amazing....

Snowman · #11 12-29-2022, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I doubt this is indicative of any kind of financial problem for PWCC. Expanding your business into other areas is the normal progression, for those in trouble and crushing it both.

People have voted with their wallets and made it clear that most will happily bid with shill bidding plagued schemes and fraud rings, time and time again. For some reason, many hobbyists will even do unpaid PR work denying inconvenient facts related to these fraud rings. The vast majority clearly have no interest in things cleaning up because they see profit in the future as values lift, regardless of how legitimate those values are. PWCC will be just fine as a result. Shill bidding and fraud clearly pay off big time.

There is zero evidence of PWCC having ever been involved in a shill bidding operation, and in fact quite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

eBay on the other hand... is beyond plagued with shill bidding and they have deliberately chosen to ignore it. I'd wager good money that you give them your business though, right?

G1911 · #12 12-29-2022, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

There is zero evidence of PWCC having ever been involved in a shill bidding operation, and in fact quite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

eBay on the other hand... is beyond plagued with shill bidding and they have deliberately chosen to ignore it. I'd wager good money that you give them your business though, right?

You never really explain your full conspiracy theory about why eBay threw away millions of dollars from one of their biggest sellers on the platform and opened themselves up to legal risk by very publicly banning them over a claim to fact that you claim is false. Still denying their complicity in the Gary Moser trimming and the mountains of evidence that they both knew and some of the cards were Brent's own? I'm sure you are. You always just claim the evidence doesn't exist, it's then presented to you or linked for the 5,000th time, and then you either double down and ignore it or claim others have done bad too and so PWCC is still a victim. Like clockwork.

I completely understand, just disagree with, doing business with fraud rings when it is to one's benefit. Unpaid simping for somebody else's fraud ring at every possible chance one gets, I will never understand.

Snowman · #13 01-01-2023, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

You never really explain your full conspiracy theory about why eBay threw away millions of dollars from one of their biggest sellers on the platform and opened themselves up to legal risk by very publicly banning them over a claim to fact that you claim is false. Still denying their complicity in the Gary Moser trimming and the mountains of evidence that they both knew and some of the cards were Brent's own? I'm sure you are. You always just claim the evidence doesn't exist, it's then presented to you or linked for the 5,000th time, and then you either double down and ignore it or claim others have done bad too and so PWCC is still a victim. Like clockwork.

I've explained why eBay accused "individuals associated with PWCC" of shill bidding numerous times. It's pretty simple, and quite obvious really. No conspiracy theories necessary. eBay learned that PWCC would soon be launching their own platform as a major competitor in the sports card auction space. Less than one month later, PWCC's website was live and immediately a zillion times better than eBay's. That sort of web development doesn't happen overnight. PWCC's auction platform had already been in development for a long time. eBay found out about it and, like eBay has shown numerous times over the past ~30 years, they AGGRESSIVELY go after their competition by any and every means necessary. eBay has also VERY CLEARLY demonstrated that they couldn't give two shits about shill bidding on their platform. In fact, they welcome it with open arms. Gotta make those shareholders happy! eBay tried to sling mud on their competition before they left on their own. This was absolutely a case of "You can't quit! You're fired!!!"

And your claim that they opened themselves up to legal risk by very publicly banning them? LOL. Please. Read it again. "Individuals associated with PWCC engaged in shill bidding". That's the snakiest wording possible. They didn't even accuse PWCC directly in their bullshit letter. They accused "individuals associated with" them (AKA - consigners).

But you already knew all of that.

As far as Gary Moser's (and other scissorhanded people) connections with PWCC goes, I've stated every time this topic gets brought up that I don't think they should be doing business with him. And guess what? They banned him. But just because they took his consignments in the past doesn't mean they too are guilty of trimming cards. Every single auction house and platform is going to have card trimmers washing cards through them. It's absolutely unavoidable. There are millions of trimmed cards in this hobby. Literally millions. If you want to stop buying cards from auction houses that sell trimmed cards, then you're going to run out of options real quick. Good luck with that.

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