Should Some Interference Be Allowed In The BST Areas?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Eric72

If member A posted a card for sales and only highlighted selected comps, which were favorable to them, they painted an intentionally incomplete picture.

If member B followed with a, "here are the last six sales of that card in a PSA 4 on eBay" post, they gave a more complete picture.

I see nothing wrong with that. Member A opened the door by cherry picking comps in an effort to get more money.


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If member A simply posted a card for sale with pictures and a price, that seems pretty straightforward. Member B probably shouldn't interfere.

I agree 100% with this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fine by me, just be careful defining what sorts of information is fair game.

[philliesfan]

First, as a dog lover, I love the Postcard!

Secondly, I am also fine with it and agree 100% with Eric72

Bob

[robw1959]

I agree with this policy and thought we were already allowed to do this, as I think I've seen some examples of interference in the past (I have a BIG personal example in mind).

[Fred]

The best way to "bring attention" to an "aggressive" selling tactic involving inflated price disclosures favorable to the seller would be to provide other pricing without any extra commentary. At some point, if the aggressive seller persists, then everyone will figure out that person may not be a community member worth dealing with.

Something to consider is that if someone doesn't include any past sales information but is obviously "high" in price, then refrain from commenting and just let it go. Else the BST will become a free for all.

[Casey2296]

No, disagree completely.

Caveat Emptor rules the day, if you're too lazy as a buyer to do your homework and educate yourself and then take the sellers word on value, then you deserve to pay a higher price. The numbers are out there for free, use them. I've had buyers use the same silly tactic to try and drive my asking price down, let's just say I won't deal with that buyer anymore because it's bad form whether a seller or buyer uses that tactic, it's not what BST is about.

It wasn't too far in the past that you would admonish any member commenting on a BST listing with anything but positive comments.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No, disagree completely.

Caveat Emptor rules the day, if you're too lazy as a buyer to do your homework and educate yourself and then take the sellers word on value, then you deserve to pay a higher price. The numbers are out there for free, use them. I've had buyers use the same silly tactic to try and drive my asking price down, let's just say I won't deal with that buyer anymore because it's bad form whether a seller or buyer uses that tactic, it's not what BST is about.

It wasn't too far in the past that you would admonish any member commenting on a BST listing with anything but positive comments.

I disagree a bit although I respect the POV. To me, that a buyer could discover the truth does not excuse a seller giving out misinformation, and the seller should be called on it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I've had buyers use the same silly tactic to try and drive my asking price down, let's just say I won't deal with that buyer anymore because it's bad form whether a seller or buyer uses that tactic, it's not what BST is about.

Just clarifying if you mean this as it was written. The "same silly tactic" refers to the example in the OP? You are saying if you gave a buyer a materially misleading list of sales, excising sales that didn't aid your narrative, and that the potential buyer noticed this, you would block them from doing any deals? And that this did indeed happen? It is inappropriate and bad form to observe a lie, not the lie itself?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

Just clarifying if you mean this as it was written. The "same silly tactic" refers to the example in the OP? You are saying if you gave a buyer a materially misleading list of sales, excising sales that didn't aid your narrative, and that the potential buyer noticed this, you would block them from doing any deals? And that this did indeed happen? It is inappropriate and bad form to observe a lie, not the lie itself?

I'll clarify, I always list my cards at a fair price based on comps because that is, in my understanding, the nature of BST, a group of collectors that treat each other with respect, integrity, and fairness. In my particular case the buyer, who has a substantial collection comped a recent Cobb Exhibit at a much lower grade to make his offer, pretty much insulting my intelligence thinking I was a Rube (no insult to the Waddell family intended), showed me who he was as a human and I decided I don't want to do business with folks like that

The great part is there are numerous members here who will interact with those same somewhat rare by today's standard principles, those are the folks that make this sub great.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'll clarify, I always list my cards at a fair price based on comps because that is, in my understanding, the nature of BST, a group of collectors that treat each other with respect, integrity, and fairness. In my particular case the buyer, who has a substantial collection comped a recent Cobb Exhibit at a much lower grade to make his offer, pretty much insulting my intelligence thinking I was a Rube (no insult to the Waddell family intended), showed me who he was as a human and I decided I don't want to do business with folks like that

The great part is there are numerous members here who will interact with those same somewhat rare by today's standard principles, those are the folks that make this sub great.

This is why I check. That example, a buyer using materially misleading comps as a negotiation tactic, is completely different from the example in this thread where a seller is lying by omission and using a manufactured and materially misleading list of comps.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is why I check. That example, a buyer using materially misleading comps as a negotiation tactic, is completely different from the example in this thread where a seller is lying by omission and using a manufactured and materially misleading list of comps.

It's the same, whether a buyer or seller is using misleading comps.

Here's the thing about this place, 100 year old cardboard images are just a vehicle, it's how we treat each other that is the true test of character.

[uyu906]

I vote for opening it up. Comment board courtesy should be enforced in BST, but nothing more. I never understood the "everyone hands off" policy of the BST anyway.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

It's the same, whether a buyer or seller is using misleading comps.

Here's the thing about this place, 100 year old cardboard images are just a vehicle, it's how we treat each other that is the true test of character.

I get what you are saying, but it is the opposite of the situation; as written the original statement benefits greatly from your clarification that you are talking about a 180 reversal of the situation.

I don't think anyone would disagree that cardboard images are not a reflection of character, while personal conduct is. This is why it seems like a good idea to allow lies to be publicly observed.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Here's the thing about this place, 100 year old cardboard images are just a vehicle, it's how we treat each other that is the true test of character.

A test that is not always passed, and sometimes is failed spectacularly. But I don't recall any incivility on BST threads in the time I've been on here.

[JollyElm]

And who, pray tell, decides what the limits are for this type of interference?? It's a huge can of worms. There is nothing more annoying than someone bringing their BS into someone else's FS/FT thread, as it's happened to me and plenty of others before. It'll start with some sort of casual, "You missed a few pertinent comps, old boy" and then dissolve into a sh*tshow as people start throwing their opinions into people's threads just for a laugh.

Caveat emptor. Everyone around here knows what the deal is, so each should do their own research and fact finding. If it ain't broke...

[Snapolit1]

Maybe a middle ground is you can out someone for what you think is a misleading BST post but should as a courtesy raise it with them privately first and see if it's promptly acted upon. What might be obvious to some might not be obvious to another person.

[Vintagecatcher]

I have been on this site from the very beginning. Most often as a buyer... rarely as a seller.

Since my focus is strictly pre-war catchers, I have a very good idea of the "going rate" for most items after 30 plus years of experience.

I have bought many items over the years from the B/S/ T thread.

Sellers post the item with a price, and then I decide whether the price is fair. If it is, then I'll attempt to buy it. Never remember seeing any threads with "comps".... just the sale price.

As others have stated already, opening the door for others to comment is a slippery slope.

Working with the public, I always hope for the best, but see the worst in people far too often.

Patrick

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

And who, pray tell, decides what the limits are for this type of interference?? It's a huge can of worms. There is nothing more annoying than someone bringing their BS into someone else's FS/FT thread, as it's happened to me and plenty of others before. It'll start with some sort of casual, "You missed a few pertinent comps, old boy" and then dissolve into a sh*tshow as people start throwing their opinions into people's threads just for a laugh.

Caveat emptor. Everyone around here knows what the deal is, so each should do their own research and fact finding. If it ain't broke...

+1

This is a classic slippery slope and will degenerate fast if allowed.

[Leon]

Ya'll (I will never use "yawl" again unless it's a sailboat) know me and know how I have felt, forever. The member makes a persuasive argument but hasn't moved the needle for needing change, imo. I think it's appropriate to post the actual written rule, under the Forum Rules icon, as most probably haven't read it. And, as stated, fraudulent activity IS the exception, which is ok to expose in BST threads.


Posts offering to buy, sell, or trade items should be made in the appropriate Buy/Sell/Trade index. This includes posts for items appearing in on-line auctions such as eBay, Grand Slam Bids and auction houses etc... Buy/Sell/Trade threads in the wrong categories, or forums, will be moved or deleted. There should be no interference by 3rd parties within the Buy/Sell/Trade areas. Third parties are those not involved in a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, posting current or historical cost information, commenting negatively on the offer or item, or anything that interferes with the listing in a negative way. Only persons involved in the transaction should post in the thread, however benign or favorable comments are generally permitted by third parties. If you don't know the difference between them, then please don't post. One exception is to expose fraudulent activity. It may always be posted in any thread, anywhere on the board, but you better have your ducks in a row and your name by your post when you report these misdeeds. “Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware” to all members. Each member uses the board at their own risk. Net54baseball does not monitor, and is not responsible for, transactions. Our sole recourse, in a punitive manner is suspension or banishment from the board. The Uniform Commercial Code of Law of the United States applies. We will work with authority’s when/if the need arises. Please request references from your trading partners when they are not well known or you don’t know them. Whenever someone resists giving a reference, upon request, please contact the moderator as that is, many times, a red flag.

Once any transaction is completed in the Buy/Sell/Trade areas, or over with, that transaction shouldn’t be deleted. Specific pricing, or confidential information may be removed but the other information should stay. Items should be consolidated in the BST area, into one thread, when appropriate. In other words don’t list more than a few similar items in single threads, in the same BST area, at once. IF you do this, they will most likely be deleted and asked to be posted again in a consolidated fashion. You should not bump a BST thread to the top very often (every 3-4 days at most) as it is discourteous to other posters.

[Bigdaddy]

Totally agree with the slippery slope argument. What if the seller leaves out one comp, or two? Is that enough to call them out? And as another poster pointed out, all PSA 5s are not created equal. Would we call out a seller for asking too little for a card? Maybe they didn't notice the band-aid on Al Kaline's forehead. Just seems like something that is hard to police and would take much time/effort on Leon's part and/or bring unnecessary drama into BST threads.

I agree that we should call out forgeries, altered cards, reprints, etc, but those are usually best handled through PMs.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No, disagree completely.

Caveat Emptor rules the day, if you're too lazy as a buyer to do your homework and educate yourself and then take the sellers word on value, then you deserve to pay a higher price. The numbers are out there for free, use them.

It wasn't too far in the past that you would admonish any member commenting on a BST listing with anything but positive comments.

+1. I agree with this completely

Also, inviting 3rd party comments will serve to bump the thread again and again, thus making everyone look at the darn thing over and over and pushing down other listings. Further, When would it be proper to post comp info? Only when the seller has posted incomplete or incorrect info? How about when a card that literally just sold in a major auction for $X is now listed on BST for $X+25%? While it annoys me, the fellow listing the just-sold-card now for 25% has every right to do so and I see no reason to jack the guy’s thread with a post, letting the world know that the exact card just sold at auction for 25% less. I think this rule is dangerous and could make a circus out of certain BST listings and also open a major can of worms/slippery slope as to proper scope. Plus, it’s unneeded considering rule #1 of BST is and always has been, caveat emptor..

That said, it’s a different story for anyone who is clearly scamming/committing fraud. Also, as we have learned over the years, the BST has a way of self-policing/correcting the generally undesirables.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1. I agree with this completely

Also, inviting 3rd party comments will serve to bump the thread again and again, thus making everyone look at the darn thing over and over and pushing down other listings. Further, When would it be proper to post comp info? Only when the seller has posted incomplete or incorrect info? How about when a card that literally just sold in a major auction for $X is now listed on BST for $X+25%? While it annoys me, the fellow listing the just-sold-card now for 25% has every right to do so and I see no reason to jack the guy’s thread with a post, letting the world know that the exact card just sold at auction for 25% less. I think this rule is dangerous and could make a circus out of certain BST listings and also open a major can of worms/slippery slope as to proper scope. Plus, it’s unneeded considering rule #1 of BST is and always has been, caveat emptor..

That said, it’s a different story for anyone who is clearly scamming/committing fraud. Also, as we have learned over the years, the BST has a way of self-policing/correcting the generally undesirables.

+1 Agree

However if the buyer posts a "PM SENT" and you feel strongly on something then just Message him direct with your observations

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No, disagree completely.

Caveat Emptor rules the day, if you're too lazy as a buyer to do your homework and educate yourself and then take the sellers word on value, then you deserve to pay a higher price. The numbers are out there for free, use them. I've had buyers use the same silly tactic to try and drive my asking price down, let's just say I won't deal with that buyer anymore because it's bad form whether a seller or buyer uses that tactic, it's not what BST is about.

It wasn't too far in the past that you would admonish any member commenting on a BST listing with anything but positive comments.

Agree 100%. The buyer should do their homework.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No, disagree completely.

Caveat Emptor rules the day, if you're too lazy as a buyer to do your homework and educate yourself and then take the sellers word on value, then you deserve to pay a higher price. The numbers are out there for free, use them. I've had buyers use the same silly tactic to try and drive my asking price down, let's just say I won't deal with that buyer anymore because it's bad form whether a seller or buyer uses that tactic, it's not what BST is about.

It wasn't too far in the past that you would admonish any member commenting on a BST listing with anything but positive comments.

As someone who has never sold anything on this website I agree with this 100%

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I agree 100% with this.

Same here. It’s incumbent on us as fellow members to call out any inaccuracies or misleading statements and to protect our fellow board members. Not our job to critique pricing absent anything misleading though.