Should Some Interference Be Allowed In The BST Areas?

BobbyStrawberry · #1 01-03-2023, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

�The Nun�s Wagner� is an extreme example of a BST thread gone wild.

There are other, less bizarre cases. Point is, yes, it has happened before.

So THAT'S where that meme came from!

Eric72 · #2 01-03-2023, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

So THAT'S where that meme came from!

Classic thread.

His original post, which did not include the photo (that came later):

"here it is guys.
been in the family for a long time, my grandfather picked it up when he was a kid from someone in georgia. We had it authenticated in 2008, he almost auctioned it off in 2010, however he was not satisfied with the price. I dont really like honus wagner, with this in mind Im willing to trade this for some other cards. Other cards Im interested in include 52 topps mantle 51 bowman mantle, 54 dan dee mantle, goudey babe ruth, cracker jack ty cobb, hank aaron rookie and other high end cards. I dont really know what to value this card at since it is so beat up, with that in mind if my trade is way to high let me know."

sycks22 · #3 01-03-2023, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

Classic thread.

His original post, which did not include the photo (that came later):

"here it is guys.
been in the family for a long time, my grandfather picked it up when he was a kid from someone in georgia. We had it authenticated in 2008, he almost auctioned it off in 2010, however he was not satisfied with the price. I dont really like honus wagner, with this in mind Im willing to trade this for some other cards. Other cards Im interested in include 52 topps mantle 51 bowman mantle, 54 dan dee mantle, goudey babe ruth, cracker jack ty cobb, hank aaron rookie and other high end cards. I dont really know what to value this card at since it is so beat up, with that in mind if my trade is way to high let me know."

This was by far the best thread ever on here. The guy wasn't even hiding his paper towels and lotion

Sean · #4 01-04-2023, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

This was by far the best thread ever on here. The guy wasn't even hiding his paper towels and lotion

Don't forget that BST thread from RB where he tried to sell a Red Cobb/ Lenox for an entire year.

wondo · #5 01-04-2023, 04:51 AM

I vote against allowing comments. There will always be a grey area and the possibility it would degrade to a shitshow is too great.

cubman1941 · #6 01-04-2023, 05:33 AM

I agree with Eric72 also but JollyElm's "hugh can of worms" is also valid. Like Pandora's Box, once it is open it can't be closed.

Bridwell · #7 01-04-2023, 05:50 AM

The buyer should do their own research. Sellers posting a "comparable" that has better centering or is a better-looking card is annoying, and unethical, but the buyer can look up the sale for themselves and compare before they make a large purchase.

carlsonjok · #8 01-04-2023, 06:15 AM

For a number of reasons, I haven't ever bought or sold much on BST, and normally would err on the side of more information being better, but the downside of this seems to far exceed the upside. I am reminded of the old saying about behavior in academic departments: "The politics are so vicious, because the stakes are so small." There is a lot of petty behavior even on non-BST threads and even causal observers can identify long-standing animosity between specific members. If it was just egregious behavior being called out, I could understand. But, pettiness works on a much a finer increment and who gets to decide the difference between egregious behavior and a merely optimistic seller?

It is my observation that most members here are fairly astute when it comes to the value of cards and memorabilia and the concern, for me anyways, would be newcomers to the hobby and the board. To that end, wouldn't it make more sense to have (yet another) stickie thread at the top of each BST thread with a tutorial on the various ways to determine sales comps? And perhaps requiring new members to read, and acknowledging reading, the tutorial as a condition for approval?

3-2-count · #9 01-04-2023, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondo

I vote against allowing comments. There will always be a grey area and the possibility it would degrade to a shitshow is too great.

Agree 100%.

BobbyStrawberry · #10 01-03-2023, 10:42 PM

Wow...that description alone is ridiculous but along with the picture...I can see why the meme has lived on.

JustinD · #11 01-04-2023, 12:39 AM

Seems like a shit show waiting to happen and bad listings sitting at the top of the page due to constant bumps for correction or arguments.

I would rather have a rule that if comps are listed they must be the most recent 5 or 7 for the same card with same grade and sale date with grading service listed. If it�s not and selective comps are given the thread is locked.

Try using selective comps and not the newest most similar on a mortgage underwrite and you have a rejection from the investor. No pick and choose.

hcv123 · #12 01-04-2023, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

Seems like a shit show waiting to happen and bad listings sitting at the top of the page due to constant bumps for correction or arguments.

I would rather have a rule that if comps are listed they must be the most recent 5 or 7 for the same card with same grade and sale date with grading service listed. If it�s not and selective comps are given the thread is locked.

Try using selective comps and not the newest most similar on a mortgage underwrite and you have a rejection from the investor. No pick and choose.

1) I respectfully believe such a rule would be not helpful. As has been previously stated - "comps" for a particular grade do not reflect a number of factors important in valuation, "eye appeal" at the top of the list. What if the last 5-7 sales had inferior or superior eye appeal (which is also a largely subjective measure).

2) When I bought my 1st house, I pursued financing through 2 different lenders (my nature). They each brought in their own "professional" appraiser. 1 appraisal came in at 420K. The other at 520K. Sorry, but based on my experience - PLENTY of pick and choose!

parkplace33 · #13 01-04-2023, 10:06 AM

Unless the comps are false, I don't have a problem with them being in the post.

The bottom line is the price of the card. Everything else is fluff.

nolemmings · #14 01-04-2023, 10:46 AM

Slippery slope-- I'd leave it as is except for mis-identified and unauthentic cards.

A reference to comps is just a guide, not an assurance that all sales were thoroughly investigated and are given. So long as the information is reasonably accurate and not a flat-out misrepresentation, let it be, as Paul McCartney might say.

On a barely related subject, my rant would be toward those who fail/refuse to put WTB on their subject lines. Many times I have clicked on a thread thinking it might be something I would consider owning, only to see there's nothing for sale and just a solicitation for someone to please sell to the poster. I must confess there have been times I thought about "interfering" with those threads by posting a thank you for wasting my time (well, maybe not thank you, but something to drive the point home).

JustinD · #15 01-04-2023, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

2) When I bought my 1st house, I pursued financing through 2 different lenders (my nature). They each brought in their own "professional" appraiser. 1 appraisal came in at 420K. The other at 520K. Sorry, but based on my experience - PLENTY of pick and choose!

I can believe you prior to a certain date but as someone who worked for the largest mortgage lender in the country and now works for the largest government sponsored mortgage investor in the country, I can assure you that if there is now the slightest proven impropriety the appraiser and appraisal is gone forever. The Wild West of appraisal is long gone. Now, you more than likely would forced to use the first appraisal in even if the second comes in a million higher unless you can prove error in the first by negligence. Trust me, it’s not easy.

hcv123 · #16 01-05-2023, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

I can believe you prior to a certain date but as someone who worked for the largest mortgage lender in the country and now works for the largest government sponsored mortgage investor in the country, I can assure you that if there is now the slightest proven impropriety the appraiser and appraisal is gone forever. The Wild West of appraisal is long gone. Now, you more than likely would forced to use the first appraisal in even if the second comes in a million higher unless you can prove error in the first by negligence. Trust me, it�s not easy.

It was after the "appraisal reform". As mentioned in my post, the only reason there were 2 appraisals, I submitted applications with 2 different lenders. Each did their own appraisal. These were supposed "professionals". The price of the house was $535K. The $420K appraisal was a joke - I was very well versed with the market at the time and expected a 480-520 appraisal. The 420 was the appraiser used by a bank with whom I had a relationship for 20+ years. The 520 was from a recommended mortgage broker who I never even met. The bank ended up apologizing and refunding all my application fees. Just saying - anytime subjectivity is involved - grossly different opinions/outcomes are possible.

As much as the grading companies and many collectors would love it to be as objective and easy as an 8 is an 8 is an 8, it is just not reality.

Aaron Seefeldt · #17 01-04-2023, 12:40 AM

Why is it that sellers show 2 or 3 recent sales of similar item BUT when their item sells they delete or don�t list the �sold� price. That would be the most recent comp, right?

FrankWakefield · #18 01-04-2023, 08:19 AM

I realize most of the comments are about price...

If there's something on BST that looks like it's not authentic, and I see it, I'd be inclined to message the seller, or post on that BST, that the item isn't genuine, or is suspicious.

On the pricing issue, who of us has not ever paid more for an item that it may have been worth? I certainly have 'overpaid' for cards, ticket stubs, and postcards.... I wasn't trying to get a good deal or a steal, I really wanted to acquire the item. Similarly, who of us has something that we want to keep, that we don't want to sell for some normal price? I've got stuff that I'd not sell for double the normal price. As do many of you guys.

jfkheat · #19 01-04-2023, 12:44 AM

I didn't read every post in this thread so this may have been mentioned. There have been several times that I saw someone list a card for sale here that they just bought from one of the auction houses. So, if someone lists a card for $2000 here and I see that they bought it a few weeks ago for $1400 can I post that info?

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