Roberto Clemente Banned in Florida

[packs]

What are some aspects of Clemente’s life that would be problematic for a child to learn about?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

What are some aspects of Clemente’s life that would be problematic for a child to learn about?

I think the reason it had to be reviewed were passages suggesting he was a victim of racism.

[irv]

Originally Posted by packs

What are some aspects of Clemente’s life that would be problematic for a child to learn about?

Nothing, zero, zilch. Read post #4. "All books" are being reviewed but like I said, the Dems and their funded media will stoop to lowest level they can in order to make the Cons and Desantis look bad.

[Peter_Spaeth]

All books have not been removed though for this review, have they? That someone would even need to closely review a biography of Clemente to see if it was lawful is a disgrace in and of itself. And who decides what discussions of race are OK and which aren't, a media specialist? Give me a fucking break. This is America. Or used to be. Stop making it sound neutral and innocuous, it isn't.

Totalitarianism always starts with censorship. And as Phil said it goes both ways, cancel culture from the left has gone way too far too IMO.

I am fine keeping sexually explicit material out of the schools. I am fine waiting for kids to be a little older before getting into sexual and gender identity. But banning books for what ultimately is a political value judgment? Noooooooooo thank you.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All books have not been removed though for this review, have they? And who decides what discussions of race are OK and which aren't, a media specialist? Give me a fucking break. This is America. Or used to be. Stop making it sound neutral and innocuous, it isn't.

Totalitarianism always starts with censorship. And as Phil said it goes both ways, cancel culture from the left has gone way too far too IMO.

I am fine keeping sexually explicit material out of the schools. I am fine waiting for kids to be a little older before getting into sexual and gender identity. But banning books for what ultimately is a political value judgment? Noooooooooo thank you.

You've never had a more totalitarian President and govt than what you currently have now.
It is no different up here with Trudeau at the helm. Like I've said numerous times in various threads, the Liberals are all in bed together worldwide. Cancel culture, censorship, the media in their back pockets, etc, etc, etc. All Liberalism, imo.

It amazes me how many have forgotten history and I'm afraid we are going to repeat it.
WW2 was won but the dream never died with it. It is still an agenda and they are not even trying to hide it anymore.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dale, I don't like it any more from the left than from the right.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dale, I don't like it any more from the left than from the right.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but it is, by far, imo, more of a left agenda than it is a right one.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dale, I don't like it any more from the left than from the right.

Originally Posted by irv

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but it is, by far, imo, more of a left agenda than it is a right one.

You won't have to worry about either left or right soon. Our alien overlords are going to make themselves known in the near future. Then we will have real problems. I have this on good authority. I seen it on both Facebook and Twitter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but it is, by far, imo, more of a left agenda than it is a right one.

I am probably on balance a little to the right of center especially these days and I do like some of what DeSantis has done, and maybe that's why seeing him stoop to the level of unnecessary censorship bothers me a great deal. IMO it's just a bad precedent and the non-Trump Republicans should be above such things.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All books have not been removed though for this review, have they? And who decides what discussions of race are OK and which aren't, a media specialist? Give me a fucking break. This is America. Or used to be. Stop making it sound neutral and innocuous, it isn't.

Totalitarianism always starts with censorship. And as Phil said it goes both ways, cancel culture from the left has gone way too far too IMO.

No, they are looking at every book/title, but not actually pulling every book from the shelves. Here's another story with a little more detail than an earlier, less detailed story referenced, that others could then use to twist and spin how they wanted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...ools-rcna70081

They are going through and looking at titles first apparently, to then see if the books can possibly have some topics they feel are not age appropriate or otherwise unallowable for students under enacted Florida state standards, and if any questions, pulling them from the shelves for "further review". In other words, no K through 3rd grade books can discuss gender identity or sexual orientation, no public grade school books can teach critical race theory, which may discuss or examine systemic racism in the U.S., and books may not include references to pornography and discrimination. The Clemente book was one (of between 100-200) that was specifically pulled for "further review" (ie: it is currently banned), while approximately 2,800 other book titles were already passed so far and not ever pulled or banned. They have around 1.5 million book titles in total in the Duval County public school's library system to eventually be reviewed apparently, and they have hired 52 certified media specialists to do the review. None of the other remaining books that have not yet been looked at by the media specialists have apparently been specifically pulled or banned yet either. If nothing else, were I a taxpayer in Duval county, I'd like to know how much of my tax money was being wasted on these 52 specialists rather than going towards actual education and other more critical school district needs.

In the case of the Clemente book, it apparently talks about the racism and discrimination he faced while playing in the U.S., and apparently the State of Florida doesn't want public school students to hear about the racist treatment someone like him received through the public schools. Makes perfect sense as a lot of states, especially Southern ones, back in Clemente's day supported and upheld Jim Crow and other racist laws and rules. Such states likely don't want to admit and let their kids learn what effing POS's they were back then by allowing such crap to happen. At least not if they can help it.

[BobC]

Double post.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

No, they are looking at every book/title, but not actually pulling every book from the shelves. Here's another story with a little more detail than an earlier, less detailed story referenced, that others could then use to twist and spin how they wanted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...ools-rcna70081

They are going through and looking at titles first apparently, to then see if the books can possibly have some topics they feel are not age appropriate or otherwise unallowable for students under enacted Florida state standards, and if any questions, pulling them from the shelves for "further review". In other words, no K through 3rd grade books can discuss gender identity or sexual orientation, no public grade school books can teach critical race theory, which may discuss or examine systemic racism in the U.S., and books may not include references to pornography and discrimination. The Clemente book was one (of between 100-200) that was specifically pulled for "further review" (ie: it is currently banned), while approximately 2,800 other book titles were already passed so far and not ever pulled or banned. They have around 1.5 million book titles in total in the Duval County public school's library system to eventually be reviewed apparently, and they have hired 52 certified media specialists to do the review. None of the other remaining books that have not yet been looked at by the media specialists have apparently been specifically pulled or banned yet either. If nothing else, were I a taxpayer in Duval county, I'd like to know how much of my tax money was being wasted on these 52 specialists rather than going towards actual education and other more critical school district needs.

In the case of the Clemente book, it apparently talks about the racism and discrimination he faced while playing in the U.S., and apparently the State of Florida doesn't want public school students to hear about the racist treatment someone like him received through the public schools. Makes perfect sense as a lot of states, especially Southern ones, back in Clemente's day supported and upheld Jim Crow and other racist laws and rules. Such states likely don't want to admit and let their kids learn what effing POS's they were back then by allowing such crap to happen. At least not if they can help it.

He who controls the past controls the present.

[G1911]

Sometimes it helps to remember that what politicians (for or against a bill) and the media say are not really true. The wonderful thing about legislation is that it is all documentary, there is an actual text of the bill and nothing not in that text is in the bill. It's an issue that can be entirely resolved by looking at the document. What is actually in a law that is passed and what everyone is screeching about are often very, very different.

The text of the bill is only 496 lines, it’s not one of the thousand page confusing ones that is a genuine pain to decipher. The actual law is here: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bil...ext/Filed/HTML. If you are really lazy, 51-78 are a pretty good TL;DR of the thesis.

It does not discriminate between races in any way, it sets a standard for all that is exactly the same. It says that one cannot teach that a race is morally superior to another, that an individual is inherently racist because of their race, that moral character is determined by the color of their skin, that a person deserves to be discriminated against because of the actions of people of the same skin color in the past who have nothing to do with them, that a person should feel guilt, anguish or discomfort because of their race.

It does not, in any way, “force schools and libraries to remove literature about people of color or with LGBTQ themes.” Not only is this a complete lie, the bill specifically states that schools are required to teach:

“167 The history of African Americans, including the history
168 of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to
169 the development of slavery, the passage to America, the
170 enslavement experience, abolition, and the contributions of
171 African Americans to society. Instructional materials shall
172 include the contributions of African Americans to American
173 society.”

This, of course, is the exact opposite of what this article and so many others are saying. “Certified”, “media”, and “specialist” are three words that never appear in the bill anywhere in any context whatsoever.

Obviously, a book celebrating Roberto Clemente is not banned, unless it argues that Clemente was morally superior to others because of his skin color (what we would call racist if it was about a white male). It’s a smart move to do this though, people are by and large not going to read the actual bill or do any research whatsoever, they’ll just follow whatever articles that preach their views to them say without any inquiry. Announcing they’re pulling an unobjectionable book that obviously is not banned by this law is just optics politics. It’s rage bait for their base, regardless of how absurd it is on even cursory inspection.

People should actually read the bill instead of the clickbait articles before they rage. One can certainly for or against the law, but one should actually look at it first. That's a probably a hot take in 2023.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He who controls the past controls the present.

Also, history is written by the winners!