Baseball Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Discussion

bcbgcbrcb · #1 02-21-2023, 11:32 PM

Sorry, Bob, maybe I didn’t explain myself clearly with the foreign “major league” connotation. I did not mean that any of those foreign leagues were the equivalent of the US major league level. Instead, my point was that those pictured on cards from the pre-war era typically played on “major league” level teams based on the actual teams/countries that they played on in comparison to lower-level teams from those countries during that era. I was trying to compare US minor leagues/amateurs to the lower level teams.

Regarding players who exclusively played only in foreign countries, you are right, they would never be enshrined in Cooperstown as that is reserved for National (USA) Baseball Hall of Famers. Separately, there is a Cuban Baseball Hall of Fame, etc.

Exhibitman · #2 02-22-2023, 07:44 AM

What I find interesting is the number of players whose rookie cards are the 1974 Laughlin set. That far removed from playing, does it really even matter?

BobC · #3 02-22-2023, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Sorry, Bob, maybe I didn�t explain myself clearly with the foreign �major league� connotation. I did not mean that any of those foreign leagues were the equivalent of the US major league level. Instead, my point was that those pictured on cards from the pre-war era typically played on �major league� level teams based on the actual teams/countries that they played on in comparison to lower-level teams from those countries during that era. I was trying to compare US minor leagues/amateurs to the lower level teams.

Regarding players who exclusively played only in foreign countries, you are right, they would never be enshrined in Cooperstown as that is reserved for National (USA) Baseball Hall of Famers. Separately, there is a Cuban Baseball Hall of Fame, etc.

No apologies necessary Phil, I just wasn't sure what you were getting at when you mentioned a foreign league team being a major league level team. I can definitely see such a foreign team as comparable to a minor league team, but then you make another somewhat confusing statement. You say that such ML level players here in the U.S. who then played on other foreign teams during the offseason typically played on "major league" level teams for the foreign country. And that the lower level foreign teams were then comparable to minor/amateur league teams we have her in the U.S. I get that, but then how do you know if a player is truly on a "major league" level foreign team? I'm not aware of any U.S. group or organization that makes such a distinction when it came to a foreign country and league, and which teams/leagues are then considered major or minor/amateur league level. Simply saying that such players typically played on the "major league level" foreign teams just seems to be getting a bit too arbitrary to me in deciding what is or isn't a major or minor/amateur league foreign team.

And even after you do make such a determination as to whether a foreign team is a major or minor/amateur league team in that other country, exactly what difference does that then make on whether you consider that foreign card of a player, on that foreign team, as potentially being considered as that player's rookie card? And if you say it doesn't really make a difference, then why make the distinction to begin with? Are you trying to say that if the guy played on a "major league level" foreign team that his foreign card gets different treatment/consideration as a rookie card than if he played on what is considered as a minor or amateur league foreign card, because that is what it sounds like you're saying/implying? I've heard of people making distinctions between U.S. issued cards/items and foreign issued ones, but never someone then making further distinctions based on which foreign country league they then played in. That is an entirely new concept to me, and I'm guessing many, many others.

bcbgcbrcb · #4 02-23-2023, 03:33 PM

At this point, I would like to see if we can move forward with trying to establish an initial listing of "pre-war" baseball Hall of Fame rookie cards. Let's begin with those that would be considered "no-brainers" as just about everyone will agree with these choices. For purposes of this list, I would like to define "pre-war" as everything prior to the modern era of baseball cards beginning with Bowman/Topps/Leaf starting in 1948. I realize that WWII ended a couple of years earlier but as Bob C has explained, this makes an excellent breaking point of the two different eras.

Please feel free to jump in and post your most obvious choices for rookie card designation through the 1947 season, keeping in mind that a traditionally accepted RC from Bowman/Leaf might actually have a better choice from 1947 or earlier, i.e.-Bond Bread, etc. Once we have accumulated a good number of choices, I will begin to checklist them in alphabetical order. My hope is that maybe we can get halfway through the HOF'ers with little to no controversy and then hammer out the tougher ones later.

darwinbulldog · #5 02-23-2023, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

At this point, I would like to see if we can move forward with trying to establish an initial listing of "pre-war" baseball Hall of Fame rookie cards. Let's begin with those that would be considered "no-brainers" as just about everyone will agree with these choices. For purposes of this list, I would like to define "pre-war" as everything prior to the modern era of baseball cards beginning with Bowman/Topps/Leaf starting in 1948. I realize that WWII ended a couple of years earlier but as Bob C has explained, this makes an excellent breaking point of the two different eras.

Please feel free to jump in and post your most obvious choices for rookie card designation through the 1947 season, keeping in mind that a traditionally accepted RC from Bowman/Leaf might actually have a better choice from 1947 or earlier, i.e.-Bond Bread, etc. Once we have accumulated a good number of choices, I will begin to checklist them in alphabetical order. My hope is that maybe we can get halfway through the HOF'ers with little to no controversy and then hammer out the tougher ones later.

I'd be surprised if we get more than 10% of the way through before we run into disagreements. The only consensus here is that we can't agree on the definition of a rookie card. But hope springs eternal I suppose.

Carl Hubbell: R315

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