How many fake autographs out there?

homerunhitter · #1 04-25-2023, 09:41 PM

hank,
im not afraid one bit. my personal belief is that a topps or upper deck factory certified autograph is much more likely to be authentic than an autograph authenticated by some summer college hire thats 19 years old working for PSA, Beckett or JSA. Ive heard horror stories of how many of the people at these TPAs that are authenticating are like 20-24 years old. just young kids, what do they know about authenticating at that age? at that age they still have skid marks in their underwear, they shouldnt be authenticating nothing! dont get me wrong, im sure TPAs have great authenticators, but those big names im sure arent looking at the majority of the daily work load if what im reading on the internet and seen on message boards is right. but then again, thats just my personal opinion that factory certified autographs would seem to appear to be more authentic than most tpas. but then again like tpas, its just an opinion and you know how the saying goes, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one! but some stink more than others! (opinions that is!)

Hankphenom · #2 04-26-2023, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

hank,
im not afraid one bit. my personal belief is that a topps or upper deck factory certified autograph is much more likely to be authentic than an autograph authenticated by some summer college hire thats 19 years old working for PSA, Beckett or JSA. Ive heard horror stories of how many of the people at these TPAs that are authenticating are like 20-24 years old. just young kids, what do they know about authenticating at that age? at that age they still have skid marks in their underwear, they shouldnt be authenticating nothing! dont get me wrong, im sure TPAs have great authenticators, but those big names im sure arent looking at the majority of the daily work load if what im reading on the internet and seen on message boards is right. but then again, thats just my personal opinion that factory certified autographs would seem to appear to be more authentic than most tpas. but then again like tpas, its just an opinion and you know how the saying goes, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one! but some stink more than others! (opinions that is!)

I'd guess the internal workings of the big TPAs are considerably tighter than you describe, but I don't want to start sounding like a shill for them. Neither should you want to start coming across as a troll against them, though, I wouldn't think. In general, I believe the marketplace has given them pretty good marks. And if you are restricting your collecting to "Topps factory certified"--whatever that is--you are consigning yourself to a much narrower focus than most vintage sports autographs collectors would enjoy. But, as always, to each his own.

homerunhitter · #3 04-26-2023, 10:45 AM

Hank,
I don�t have anything wrong or against TPAs, I�m fact, I have a Ton of PSA slabs in my collection (and some Beckett, JSA and SGC) I buy them all the time however I �prefer� factory certified autographs if given the choice between the two. But like you said , I don�t limit or narrow my collecting tastes as there are some cards I like signed that are not Factory certified, so I collect them all, I just �prefer� factory certified items if given the option.

Hankphenom · #4 04-26-2023, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Hank,
I don�t have anything wrong or against TPAs, I�m fact, I have a Ton of PSA slabs in my collection (and some Beckett, JSA and SGC) I buy them all the time however I �prefer� factory certified autographs if given the choice between the two. But like you said , I don�t limit or narrow my collecting tastes as there are some cards I like signed that are not Factory certified, so I collect them all, I just �prefer� factory certified items if given the option.

Cool. Betraying my ignorance here, I know, but what does factory certified mean? Is that a new thing?

homerunhitter · #5 04-26-2023, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Cool. Betraying my ignorance here, I know, but what does factory certified mean? Is that a new thing?

Hank,
Factory certified means an autograph that you pull from a pack that comes already certified by the manufacturer such as topps, bowman, donruss etc.

Hankphenom · #6 04-26-2023, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Hank,
Factory certified means an autograph that you pull from a pack that comes already certified by the manufacturer such as topps, bowman, donruss etc.

Are these all autographs that the card company has witnessed being signed, is that what the certification is attesting to? And if not, and especially if it includes dead guys, who did the authentication?

homerunhitter · #7 04-26-2023, 08:24 PM

that is my understanding of it. I believe they are signed when the player is still alive.

Kaneen · #8 04-27-2023, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Cool. Betraying my ignorance here, I know, but what does factory certified mean? Is that a new thing?

Factory certified, as homerunhitter calls it, are the Certified Autographed cards inserted in packs of new product by the manufacturing companies. (ie. Topps, Panini, and formerly Upper Deck, etc.). These are autographs that the companies claim are personally signed by the player, and personally witnessed by a company rep. They attest to that being the case on the card in the fine print.

This practice has been part of the insert "chase card" phenomenon for many years now. However, in the early days of pack-pulled certified autographed cards there were some lax standards where some companies just mailed the cards directly to the players and trusted them to personally sign them. It only took a couple of situations where some players got a little "help" signing the hundreds/thousands of cards that led to some uncertainty and bad publicity about them. To be fair, in recent times it seems that the companies do keep a much tighter reign on the "witnessed" aspect of the process. So for the most part, modern day "factory certified" autographed cards are "witnessed" and about as iron clad as you get in the autograph hobby.

There have also been examples of known counterfeit "cert cards" where both the card was counterfeited and the autograph forged on expensive cards like Mays and Jeter. So, even with these certified cards one still needs to be aware that while it is a good system, it is not 100% foolproof.

Hankphenom · #9 04-27-2023, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneen

Factory certified, as homerunhitter calls it, are the Certified Autographed cards inserted in packs of new product by the manufacturing companies. (ie. Topps, Panini, and formerly Upper Deck, etc.). These are autographs that the companies claim are personally signed by the player, and personally witnessed by a company rep. They attest to that being the case on the card in the fine print. This practice has been part of the insert "chase card" phenomenon for many years now. However, in the early days of pack-pulled certified autographed cards there were some lax standards where some companies just mailed the cards directly to the players and trusted them to personally sign them. It only took a couple of situations where some players got a little "help" signing the hundreds/thousands of cards that led to some uncertainty and bad publicity about them. To be fair, in recent times it seems that the companies do keep a much tighter reign on the "witnessed" aspect of the process. So for the most part, modern day "factory certified" autographed cards are "witnessed" and about as iron clad as you get in the autograph hobby. There have also been examples of known counterfeit "cert cards" where both the card was counterfeited and the autograph forged on expensive cards like Mays and Jeter. So, even with these certified cards one still needs to be aware that while it is a good system, it is not 100% foolproof.

Thanks, Kevin.

Hankphenom · #10 04-27-2023, 08:35 AM

One last question: If they're pulled from packs, in what form are they certified?

Deertick · #11 06-17-2023, 10:42 AM

Anyone think it has gotten better since?

https://www.si.com/longform/true-cri...lia/index.html

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