why do sellers change asking price to sold after a sale?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’ve never had anyone request it. My reasons were different. Whether a T206 common sold for $75, $80 or $85 I really can’t see why anyone not in the deal cares, and I really don’t see why some people are clearly upset about it and using rather extreme verbiage.

It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?

I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.

Anyone can do almost anything they want. That was not the point. I think we all benefit as buyers and sellers from having as much sales data as possible. Being able to see asking prices at a minimum here is something which I feel is helpful and if a seller was going to put it up once then simply leave it.

And I disagree that BST is full of junk. Pretty harsh generalization.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.

I have bought these here and many more of this caliber. I doubt they would be junk to most.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have bought these here and many more of this caliber. I doubt they would be junk to most.

You actually but that junk here? Sucker.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You actually but that junk here? Sucker.

It was like grazing the junk bins at a show, I am almost ashamed to admit it.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It was like grazing the junk bins at a show, I am almost ashamed to admit it.

Well you showed a lot of guts to post those here and to admit to such behavior. We will forever be referring to you as a junk collector.

[G1911]

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.

Which of these cards are difficult to price?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

I’m a dude who collects cardboard pictures for fun, I don’t care about the efficiency of a profit market whatsoever.

I am sure we are all wells ware there’s a lot more $75 items sold than $1000 ones or whatever line you would like to draw. The majority of the more expensive cards are commodity cards that are easily priced.

I’m losing the logic here. You believe any sale price of any item in any industry must be disclosed publicly and documented for the public? One can think whatever they want but I sure don’t have time to do that. Do I need to make a publicly available database for my lunch receipts? Do you need to know what I paid for my furniture at a garage sale?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?

But we're not an auction house here, we're like minded members who respect each other.
For example; a long time member posted his Rose Postcard of Moonlight Graham for sale, Ryan sent a PM and bought it.

Is the sales price anybody's business but the two of them? No.

If you were collecting Rose Postcards and wanted to get an idea of what that card sold for I'm sure you could pm Ryan and ask him, he's a nice guy and a good member so he would probably tell you.

If you want Net54 opinions to build a database of the card you want just make a post, "how much does a XXX go for?" you will get more opinions and data than you'd ever want.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

But we're not an auction house here, we're like minded members who respect each other.
For example; a long time member posted his Rose Postcard of Moonlight Graham for sale, Ryan sent a PM and bought it.

Is the sales price anybody's business but the two of them? No.

If you were collecting Rose Postcards and wanted to get an idea of what that card sold for I'm sure you could pm Ryan and ask him, he's a nice guy and a good member so he would probably tell you.

If you want Net54 opinions to build a database of the card you want just make a post, "how much does a XXX go for?" you will get more opinions and data than you'd ever want.

I can appreciate that but I also like to rely on my own efforts and not have to trouble other people. In your example, if the seller of the postcard did not put an asking price in the post I would agree it is nobody's business. If he did then what harm is it in leaving it there?

And I pose the same question to you as I did to Greg: Should auction sites now refuse to share sales data with us and cease submitting data to VCP? Imagine going to eBay and searching sales and starting price was gone as was sold price? I think most in the hobby would be up in arms.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I can appreciate that but I also like to rely on my own efforts and not have to trouble other people. In your example, if the seller of the postcard did not put an asking price in the post I would agree it is nobody's business. If he did then what harm is it in leaving it there?

And I pose the same question to you as I did to Greg: Should auction sites now refuse to share sales data with us and cease submitting data to VCP? Imagine going to eBay and searching sales and starting price was gone as was sold price? I think most in the hobby would be up in arms.

There's no harm in leaving it there, but if it's one thing I've learned from old school collectors here is that you have to show passion and effort to get information. It's what sets us apart from a lot of the collecting world, that and a big dollop of honesty and integrity. It's why I love this community so much.
Auction houses, eBay, and VCP are in the business of gathering sales info, you can gather information here but not in the same way so it's not a valid comparison imho.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How is it showing honesty and integrity to request your seller to delete pricing information so you can try to get a much higher price? I am just missing that in all this discussion.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How is it showing honesty and integrity to request your seller to delete pricing information so you can try to get a much higher price? I am just missing that in all this discussion.

Is that a question directed towards me?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Is that a question directed towards me?

To anyone who wants to answer it, but you talked about the honesty and integrity here, and I largely agree, but don't see the practice we are discussing as a good example of it.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Auction houses, eBay, and VCP are in the business of gathering sales info, you can gather information here but not in the same way so it's not a valid comparison imho.

Auction houses and ebay are not in the business of gathering sales info they are in the business of making items available for sale. VCP is in business to gather sales data...I agree.

My point is that AH and ebay do not have to make those sales data available to us. They do and we use it. Or maybe you don't? So if nobody ever showed an opening bid, or asking price or final sales price wouldn't the hobby be much different?

I rely heavily on sales data.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Auction houses and ebay are not in the business of gathering sales info they are in the business of making items available for sale. VCP is in business to gather sales data...I agree.

My point is that AH and ebay do not have to make those sales data available to us. They do and we use it. Or maybe you don't? So if nobody ever showed an opening bid, or asking price or final sales price wouldn't the hobby be much different?

I rely heavily on sales data.

Fair points, I see it differently but if you ever want to know what I sold a card for just PM me and I'll tell you.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Fair points, I see it differently but if you ever want to know what I sold a card for just PM me and I'll tell you.

Appreciate that Phil! Thank you.